Ms Susan Clyne:

We met the Minister at our AGM in April. I also mentioned in the statement that the Minister has published the report from the task force on NCHDs. On the Senator's question, following the threat of an NCHD strike in 2022, we entered into an agreement with the HSE. That agreement became effective in January 2023. There was a lot of back and forth on how we would verify people's working hours and the sanctions that would be put in place for the hospitals that breached those hours. Everyone accepts that, as the HSE indicated, NCHD numbers have significantly increased over recent years but that has been driven by service demand. It was not driven by a plan to reduce working hours. The NCHDs themselves have said they believe approximately 800 NCHDs, targeted at specific areas, are required to bring working hours back down. They note that this number is unverified but have stuck to it. Everyone at that meeting acknowledged that was the case so the next morning was a shock to the system. Deputy Cullinane had contacted the chief executive of the HSE that morning. It was a shock to the system to learn that this recruitment embargo had been put in place. On NCHDs and the recruitment embargo, I will make the point that the embargo does not save a penny. If you stop hiring NCHDs, the job does not go away. The other NCHDs just have to do overtime.