Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

How can we influence the Russians if they are participating in something like that and it boils over? The war in the Balkans is a fairly recent example. I do not believe it could have been resolved other than by the use of a force beyond the control of Miloševi that was able to impress upon him and his colleagues that they could not go on as they were and that it would not be allowed to continue.

I do not accept at all the notion that the Minister for Foreign Affairs is undermining Irish neutrality. Neutrality worked well in 1939 and it was the only obvious option available to this country then. Other countries throughout Europe were neutral at that time but this did not stop the aggressor. The aggressor went right on through them, built concentration camps and put a people who were peaceful into them. The aggressor had no regard for them at all. Therefore, I do not accept the notion that the Minister for Foreign Affairs and the Irish military authorities are undermining Ireland's neutrality. The fact is that, in the case of an event like the cutting of underground cables, which would be an attack on an obvious target and which has happened, we could not defend ourselves against it. Ireland, as a neutral country, could do nothing about it. We could not say to the aggressor that it had declared war on us, a neutral country, and that we would hold it responsible. There is no way to hold the aggressor responsible; he does not have regard for any authority anywhere.

Let me refer again to the war in the western Balkans, including Sarajevo and Mostar. I had the doubtful privilege of visiting those places shortly after the happenings in question and what I saw was shocking.

I have to say that it was shocking because it was allowed to continue. Everybody had form, or baggage in the area. People might recall that the Dutch UN detachment was there and it stood down because it was threatened by a superior force. It all boils down to how would one solve that by peaceful means. It was a situation where the aggressors were blatantly ignoring all human rights issues and so on and were attacking the civilian population. They had every intention of continuing to wipe them out. Previous participants in wars in Europe were involved in wiping out populations as well. Some of them went a fair distance towards doing so.

We need to remember that not all the things we do here are an erosion of our neutrality. Neutrality has its place and it works well. It worked extremely well in 1939. It was the only option available to the country because the people who were the contenders at that time were seen by de Valera as being unreliable and unlikely to keep to an agreement. He was right on this. However, we cannot declare neutrality on an aggressor. It is as simple as that. The aggressor will continue to pursue until such time as the weak are subdued. I am just throwing this out there. I had the honour, sadly, of visiting those military graveyards in the various villages, towns and cities across the western Balkans. The graves on one side and the other side could be measured after the event, 300 in one graveyard, 350 in the other graveyard. The same applied right across the board. The ages on the headstones were 18, 17 or 20, showing the young lives that were sacrificed over the course of it. It can be argued that if the UN forces had not stood down - despite being outmatched - they would have forced the aggressor to back off but he did not intend to back off and he showed that. We can use the example of Irish troops abroad who did not stand down and paid with their lives in various locations across the globe. There are lessons to be learned from all of that, unfortunate though it is. I do not believe in the concept preferred by the Russians, that they want to negotiate for peace after they have captured the territory they wanted to capture in the first place. It is easy to negotiate on one's own terms when one is the aggressor and has subdued a population or has proven to be the stronger force.

I apologise, I should not wander off into the distance but unfortunately, these are things we may have to look at. There are changing situations in Europe at present. The Minister for Foreign Affairs has reflected that from the various discussions he has been involved in. We have to have regard for that. He and the Government are held responsible if they do not take account of something like that. All volunteers and NGOs and so on have a huge contribution to make. The only thing is that the responsibility falls on Government. No other organisation is blamed for negligence or something of that nature in the event of there being a catastrophe that we would not like to revisit.