Tom Clonan (Independent)
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I wish everybody a good afternoon and I thank our guests for coming along and for all the work they do. I appreciate that they are trying to build something when we have had a culture of cuts and dismantling things for so long. I was struck by the process described by the assistant commissioner of going to the senior leadership team to try to get sign-off and liaising with Detective Chief Superintendent Noonan to identify staff. Some of my questions are about the creation of this Barnahus model. I will start with CHI and the HSE. A number of terms were used to describe the medical personnel who are deployed to the Barnahus centres. There was reference to a doctor and our guests referred to a consultant, a paediatrician and a forensic specialist. I would like to know whether they are child and adolescent psychiatrists with higher specialist training and if so, where do they come from? What is the nature of the qualifications and higher specialist training of the doctors? Clinical specialist nurses were also mentioned. What is the nature of their training? Are they psychiatric nurses or paediatric nurses? From what setting are they coming? Are they being taken from CAMHS teams to staff the Barnahus model? Where are they coming from?

In their evidence, our guests also mentioned that some of the therapists, counsellors and psychologists were being sourced from outside the HSE. Is that the case? Are the medical staff and clinicians full section 38 HSE employees who have permanent, pensionable jobs or are they coming from outside the organisation through, for example, section 39 outfits that provide these services on an annual bidding process?

Mr. Delaney mentioned the preparation of annual budgets. Are these centres now set up on a permanent and multi-annual basis or will budgetary approval have to be sought and a business case made on a year-to-year basis? What is the security or predictability of funding?

Ms Duggan mentioned in her evidence that Tusla received a total of 91,924 referrals in 2023, of which 5,467 related to sexual abuse. She said later in her statement that approximately 440 children were dealt with in Barnahus West over four years. The following is not a criticism but an observation, but that figure strikes me 100 children per annum. I know that is only in one sector out of a very high number. What are the criteria? How is triage conducted? Who is responsible for triage? An enormous volume of complaints of sexual assault are coming in but a tiny fraction are dealt with. I am shocked at the numbers. I ask our guests not to infer any implied criticism from my questions. If anything, I know it can be very stressful for those involved on the front line. There is vicarious trauma from unmet need and the knowledge that there are so many people who cannot be assisted or in whose case our guests cannot intervene. The question is whether the demand can be met.

Is there an equivalent Barnahus model for vulnerable adults? I have an interest in disability and know there have been some very high-profile cases of vulnerable adults who, very often while in controlled environments and State care, have been serially sexually assaulted. Is there a similar model for such people?

Our guests will have to forgive my ignorance as a layperson. Having gone through the process of the multidisciplinary approach, which is child-centred and trauma-informed, and all the protocols that are in place, if a case goes to prosecution, are the child and family bounced out of this very supportive environment and into an adversarial system? Do counsel for the defence also have access to these videos? How does it work? Is that information medical and in confidence? That is why I am curious about the qualifications of those involved. What is the nature of the relationship between the medical professional and the child? Is that medical interview in confidence or is that information shared at a later stage, if a case goes to prosecution, with a senior counsel who is involved in a prosecution? I would be concerned if that information were to be shared with the counsel for the defence in our adversarial process. Is there a risk that the child or family could be retraumatised? I know I have asked a lot of questions.