Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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First, on the draft of the briefing document, that may not meet the definitions others have. Since the Second World War, neutrality has always been an avoidance of participation in a military alliance or of joining one. In the context of one of the referendums, we inserted that we would not be part of one and entered into our Constitution that we would not be part of an EU defence pact without a further referendum. That, in essence, is the position.

Allied with or complementing that is an independent foreign policy position within the framework of the European Union, with a strong focus on the UN Charter, international humanitarian law, international development aid, climate security, women, peace and conflict. We have fairly distinct positions and when referencing that, I might have gone on for too long for Deputy Carthy in respect of what we are doing in the Middle East. I was endeavouring to make the point that it takes a persistent and consistent focus and approach to build up credibility so that when Ireland files an intervention into the International Criminal Court on robust legal grounds, and does so in an analytical and informed way, people will take notice. On the other hand, if it is simply announced some fine day without any due diligence, people would just say the Government is politicising the court and is not taking the court seriously. How we develop our foreign policy and the areas we concentrate on are just as important, in terms of stating we are not joining any military alliance. Others might have a view that we should be politically neutral or should broaden the definition. Given our membership of the European Union and the Common Security and Defence Policy - which we never opted out of and opted into on day one - it seems to me that we are in a position that we can navigate and manage and that we can be proactive on the international stage. Our position is respected and the European Union accommodates the national characteristics of each member state's foreign policies. In this case now, it is Ireland, Austria and Malta and prior to that, we had Finland and Sweden. Because of the Ukrainian war, their governments have, with the support of their people, taken decisions in respect of joining NATO but the situation there changed overnight on foot of the Russian invasion.

In any event, we will try to get a briefing document together for the committee and I take the point the Senator made. The world has changed. I visited that centre in Estonia. Our National Cyber Security Centre has participated in what is called the NATO Centre of Excellence in Estonia. When I went there they were looking at how water utilities can be penetrated by cyberattacks. What is wrong with people learning about how to develop public water supplies that are resilient? We heard this morning on "Morning Ireland" and maybe the other stations as well, the commentary in respect of how it has been three years since the cyberattack on our health service and the enormous cost it created in human and financial terms.

On the EU Commissioner for defence, we have the EDM maritime surveillance project that includes Atlantic countries. There is a lot of proactive action between the member states and the UK in respect of activity in international waters or suspicious activity with certain ships and there is a lot of exchange of information. When it comes to dealing with drug traffickers and so on, there is a lot of co-ordination on an intelligence level and our new C295s now give us tremendous capacities from the air in terms of maritime surveillance and surveying our exclusive economic zone. We can do it much more quickly and effectively now with the technology on board those planes. They cost a couple of hundred million - €200 million a plane - which is a substantial investment. Both have arrived and that is giving us far greater capacity. Again, the Senator is correct, in that it is collaboration and co-operation in which we all share. It is a case of what have you seen over there or have you seen what is going on over there. That goes on every day between the different militaries and intelligence teams across all militaries. In terms of overseas development aid, my view is that the OECD praises Ireland, through peer reviews, in terms of the quality and impact of the Irish Aid programme. Most of our support is in sub-Saharan Africa, which is the furthest behind, and we tend to focus on education in some countries, such as Uganda for example, or in health. Ethiopia was traditionally very strong. I was in Mozambique last year and food security is a key focus of ours. None of our aid is going anywhere other than to the projects and areas we have identified. We are working with USAID in Malawi on food diversity and crop diversification for example. We are trying to get people off one crop and to develop climate-resilient seeds. There is a lot of good work being done on food security by Irish Aid. When I was in Mozambique for example, a simple thing like a solar powered pump or well-----