Victor Boyhan (Independent)
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I thank the Secretary General and his team for being with us today. He is a refreshing and interesting Secretary General because of the frankness and honesty of his responses. I genuinely believe that and wanted to put it on the record.

We are all realists here and are blue in the face talking forestry. We have disproportionately spent the past four years talking about forestry. Deputy Fitzmaurice is right that between 2020 and 2024, no targets were been reached. The Government is on its way out. I will not say it is banjaxed but it is certainly on its way out and it will be only a matter of weeks before we see the final wake-up call for some politicians around Leinster House. It is inevitable that there will be a change of Government within months. The current Government has not delivered. A key plank of its strategy was its forestry strategy and we have heard many platitudes and comments on what was happening or was not and on interim systems. We could not get Ministers in here or get accountability from anybody, so I thank the Secretary General for his engagement with us today.

There are two sides to this. We all know that Ireland's forestry strategy for the period from now to 2030 has to be delivered upon with regard to the national forestry estate, public and private. There is an important reason I refer to both public and private: we see two different strategies, two different strands and two different sets of motivations. In many cases, the private sector has felt absolutely blackguarded and frustrated in the process. I have gone to forestry in Wicklow and even in the Dublin mountains and have seen Coillte forestry and private forestry. I have noted the time lag between the two. There is no rationale for this. There is no explanation, other than a comment to the effect that it is being processed. It is very frustrating for people who have invested heavily to see all the delays in the process. That is an important point to make. While we need to recognise climate change and biodiversity, it is ultimately about yielding timber for production. That is the number one priority above everything else. It has got to be economic, sustainable and producing timber. Therefore, the implementation is really important.

The Secretary General referred to confidence. In many ways, I do not see a sense of urgency or emergency in Coillte. It just strums along. There is no one kicking it if it does not deliver, but the private sector has lost all confidence. Forestry is in crisis, despite any Minister in Agriculture House telling us otherwise. It has been a disaster. The Government has been in office for four and half years and has not succeeded; it is as simple as that. The figures stack up in this regard. The Secretary General is more certain and will be around for a hell of a lot longer than any politician in Agriculture House, certainly those in this Administration, so he can think more strategically and long term, based on succession and continuity of policy and delivery in his Department.

The licensed planting targets will not be met. In this regard, let us not cod or fool ourselves. The Secretary General has more or less said it already. He has said we have to set ambitious targets. Of course we do, but I am asking him to set realistic targets. Based on all our experience, we simply have not delivered. The Secretary General and I know that it is May and that there will be no planting in June, July or August. We know the planting time is short and that we will not deliver. Let us put our hands up today and say we are not going to deliver despite having all the targets we like.

What is the Department going to do to inspire confidence and incentivise people? The Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine held detailed discussions with the Department of Public Expenditure, National Development Plan Delivery and Reform to agree the grant and premium rates for the new forestry programme, the new strategy. Mr. Gleeson might share some information on the deliberations with that Department and on the agreement reached. The document in respect of which I have a briefing note states incentivisation was one of the key issues Mr. Gleeson raised with the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform, National Development Plan Delivery and Reform. He stated that we have got to incentivise if we are to deliver on the levels of planting necessary for Ireland to meet its afforestation targets. Those are his words, not mine. I am not privy to the outcome of all the discussions, but this is really important. The strategy was considered in detail by the Department of Public Expenditure, National Development Plan Delivery and Reform under its public spending code.

Will Mr. Gleeson share a little bit of the outcome of that? How does he think they got a better deal with regard to incentivising the public and private in respect of forestry planting? Can he share a little bit of his engagement with the Department on that issue?