Mr. Barry Saul:

I am delighted to make a submission to the Seanad Public Consultation Committee on the future of local government. I thank the Cathaoirleach, the rapporteur and the Senators for joining us today to hear our voices. In preparing for today I listened back to previous meetings. Many councillors from all parties spoke about the challenges and frustrations of local government and the systems of local government. There were also insightful contributions from Deputies Howlin, Ó Cuív, Phelan and former Deputy Noel Dempsey. The committee has heard a lot of varied and interesting voices. I ask what I can add to this conversation that has not been added before, but there is much evidence and research regarding the current state of local government and its deficiencies. I can tell the committee where Ireland ranks on the autonomy scale versus our partners in Europe, but I think it is well aware of those statistics by now. I could talk about the reduction of powers to councillors over successive Governments, but I think my colleagues here and in previous meetings have already articulated this.

I will touch on my time as a member of the citizens' assembly on the directly-elected mayor and local government. To be honest, I was not a fan of citizens' assemblies. Every time I heard one being announced I probably raised my eyes to heaven and said that was a job the Oireachtas should be doing. I was probably cynical going into it, but was delighted to be chosen to be a member. I thought it was a fantastic process and the final report was interesting. One of our first challenges was that the assembly became 100% focused on the directly-elected mayor and not on the other term of reference, which was to consider the structures of local government within Dublin. It was a fascinating process and one I fully enjoyed. A colleague here today was on it, as were various other councillors. A lot of long weekends, Saturdays and Sundays were given up by councillors and members of the public. There were a large number of presentations from members of academia, county managers and former councillors. One of the most fascinating was from the Mayor of Greater Manchester, Andy Burnham, who gave a passionate speech on local and regional government. I hope the committee considers inviting him if it can, because he was an interesting speaker. Most interesting about the whole process was the public engagement process of the citizens' assembly, and the journey they, and we, as councillors, went on. Some 1,500 applications were received and 67 people were randomly selected to serve on it. At our first meeting, the level of knowledge of the local government system was limited. During the process I was asked many interesting questions as a councillor. I was asked if my driver had dropped me off and how big my secretarial staff was. The enlightenment and the journey members of the public went on about the role of the councillor and the lack of supports was interesting. After several meetings, and at our last meeting, those with limited knowledge of local government structures were challenging and questioning the expert panels, which was incredible to see. There was real engagement and the whole group finished its journey with vast knowledge of local government structures in Ireland. That knowledge and the learning experience of members of the citizens' assembly showed up in the final votes. On the question of whether councillors should be made full time, 90% voted in favour. On the question of whether councillors' salaries should be more reflective of full-time commitment, 94% voted in favour. You might mistake some of those voting results for an AILG or LAMA conference, but these were randomly picked members of the general public. There was 57% in favour of keeping local government structures as they are. Some 88% voted that the cabinet of a directly elected mayor, should one be chosen, be made up of councillors.

This committee has heard from a lot of people, but it needs to be bold, brave and to make decisions. The mandate the committee and we, as councillors, have received from the citizens' assembly is shown in the high levels of support for reform of local government, reforms of the working conditions of councillors and reform of local democracy.

Finally, we remember the salary increases for councillors and the long process that took. Many Ministers were afraid to make those decisions in case there was a public backlash. The citizens' assembly, when they were educated and when they went through a process, were fully in support, by 90% and 94%, of reforms to local government. I hope the committee takes them on board.

I thank the Cathaoirleach again for the privilege of coming into the Chamber.