Alan Kelly (Tipperary, Labour)
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I thank the Chair. I have an awful lot of questions so I will also come in for a second time. I very much welcome all the officials. They will know I have asked questions about Baggot Street hospital. I worked across the road from it for years at Bord Fáilte. Why that building is not being used is beyond my comprehension. I do not buy the arguments. With respect to the Chair, maybe a small delegation from this committee, along with representatives from the Department, the Department of housing and Dublin City Council, could visit it someday. I would be up for that. It is absolutely beyond my comprehension that it is not being used in some capacity by the Government. I would like to see not just the assessment but all correspondence with Dublin City Council as well.

To be balanced and fair to the Department, what it faced was unprecedented. I accept that. There has been a huge amount of change in personnel. I cannot keep up with who does what on the departmental side because it changes so often. Staffing is obviously an issue in the Department. There is a huge amount of change around in respect of people. The Department is spiralling. It has almost gone too far. It is very difficult. It has many different areas and a lot of different responsibilities.

One thing about the Department is that it is very much interdependent on other Departments doing their bit as well. I acknowledge that. For instance, and I would not have brought this up in the same manner, the matter of the Department of Justice and processing times for applicants was brought up. If that is not done efficiently, the officials before us are left to pick up the pieces. I do not mean that in a literal way but in the sense of the volume of people here, who have not been processed, the officials have to deal with. That is just a fact. The Department is also dependent on co-operation from the Departments of Health and housing, and other Departments as well. I want to put that very much on the record. The Minister, who is a very decent man, has been very much politically isolated. I want to say that. We do not get into politics here, but he has been left to deal with many of these issues, more or less by himself, as have his officials.

My first question is for Dr. Brooks. It relates to childcare centres. I will use a parochial example. In accordance with what others said, the whole childcare sector is in crisis. It will be like nursing homes, which, with our demographics, will be a massive crisis we need to prepare for, as will childcare. I know all about the changes, the independent review done by Indecon, the plans to set up a new agency and all of that. Dr. Brooks does not need to tell me about any of that because I know it all. We have been told about it and I am aware of it. I will use a parochial example to illustrate where we are at. I spoke with the chair of the board of management of Nenagh Childcare Centre. He said that if the funding model does not change, the centre will close this Christmas as it will be trading recklessly otherwise. It looks after 107 children and has 23 staff. Effectively, the centre has not had a funding change for 20 years. It is funded through Pobal. We know all about that and we know where that is going. However, before the change in administration happens, and using Nenagh as an example, I am publicly asking the officials to meet staff from that centre with me. Dr. Brooks might answer that.

Nenagh is quite an affluent town but this facility deals with people who need this service. It is not realistic, with 23 staff costing €750,000 in wages, for that centre to be able to continue with such a massive funding differential. In the short term, before everything hopefully changes, what will the Department do for the likes of Nenagh Childcare Centre, which will close, according to its chair, to help it get through this? That centre has a legacy issue due to Covid, as do all such facilities.