Mr. Raymond McCord:

What would come out in Raymond's case was the use of the term "collusion". When Raymond was murdered, it did not take me long to find out who murdered him. I did not know what collusion meant. Those of us from the unionist community would have heard nationalists and, in particular, republican politicians speaking about collusion. John Taggart was with me last night. As the Senator is aware, we are great friends. I went to the Ballymurphy inquest. I commented that I would like to see more people from the unionist community go down and support them because it was about murders. It does not make any difference that the British Army did it; they were murders. Just because a person wears a uniform, it does not make them immune from prosecution. Unfortunately, some politicians in my community had a totally different opinion than I had. They are afraid of the truth in young Raymond's case.

Years ago, I got a call from a very senior journalist and arranged a meeting. After I met him, I saw how serious it was. He told me he got a call from a certain individual in London. He did not name the person. The person was obviously in a prominent position. He knew this man was a friend of mine. He asked the journalist to send me a message but not to tell me whom it had come from. As the man could not tell me over the phone, we met up. He said he was just told to tell me to keep doing what I was doing because it was causing ructions in Downing Street. They did not say in Parliament or among political people, but in Downing Street.

Tony Blair was Prime Minister at the time when Raymond was murdered. It did not make any difference whether the British Government was Labour or Conservative. Over all those years, the people we would label civil servants - the security agencies, MI5 or whatever label it has on it - have been determined to ensure that young Raymond's case would not be heard in a court because they were frightened, not just of where it leads to but whom it leads to. That has continued. As the years went by, instead of improving or getting closer to it we have been driven further away from it. You would think the Government, its agencies and the system had passed a secret Act in Parliament that the Raymond McCord Jnr. case was not to go forward.

Recently, a sensitive document in Belfast was brought to my attention. It was mentioned by the judge the other day. I am not expert in law; my legal people are the experts. I refer to a disclosure point or a disclosure document. It turns out it is a very sensitive document and we hope to see it. If we see it, I will come back to this committee with it. This is part and parcel of what the state has been trying to do and what it has achieved. That is stopping not just justice but the truth. People get to go out and tell the truth. I know the truth about my son’s case. I know all who killed him. I know the names of the special branch officers who allowed it to go ahead. We tried to get them charged but the public prosecution service does not want to know this. My legal people have to be careful about what they say. I do not have as many of those restrictions, so I can be more open than my solicitors. That is not a criticism of the solicitors or barristers; they have to abide by the rules of the court.

Raymond’s case is not just about young Raymond. This is about all victims. There are other cases with people from unionist and nationalist communities. Whether people were political or were like myself, with no interest in politics, it does not make any difference. It affects their cases. Over the years in courts, I have met many different individuals from both communities. The difference has been - I find this and I see it - that the nationalist victims have been fortunate by getting support from their community. It seems it was a "hidden" crime – that is the word – and that if you are from a unionist community, you do not go against the state. You do not speak out against the state or the security forces or their actions. I believe it is a way of the state’s authorities saying, "We will put this man in his place". Never mind his son was murdered by our agents, never mind that the leader was paid at least £80,000 for murdering Protestants and Catholics, embarked on a sectarian campaign. By leader I mean of the Mount Vernon UVF and, as it was raised previously here, whose chief of staff also worked for the state. Those people were protected and the system continues to protect them by ensuring that young Raymond’s case will not go to court.

I am involved with a group in Dublin called the Truth and Justice Movement. It is completely cross-community, with no interest in politics or pointing the finger at the other side, which was a problem for years here in the justice system. The state used it - it was “them”. It was always one side pointing at the other. We have achieved something within our group in that that does not exist. We saw all political parties sign a document in Belfast several years ago. There was no political or sectarian narratives at the event at Belfast City Hall. It was about truth and justice. Many other victims know the truth and the state knows the truth. In essence, the state could have an inquest for Raymond on Monday - or tomorrow. It has all the evidence. We know what the decision would be if it was all put in front of a judge. The state was guilty of a murder and the state was guilty of young Raymond’s murder. The reason they want to stop Raymond’s case more so than any other is that the evidence cannot be refuted in any way. It is not "intelligence" - that is what the police used to tell me - it is evidence. I will go back to what Séan said. If they were not so frightened of young Raymond’s case and they had nothing to hide, why after all these years will they not hand these documents over? If you have an inquiry in Dublin with regard to anything for justice, whether it is housing and so on, the evidence is put in front of you. You do not wait 27 years for it. This will happen. The recourse we have and my family has is through Dublin. Imagine a person from a unionist community having to come to Dublin the way I went to America to seek justice.

I see Mr. Hazzard. Several years ago, I came to Dublin and spoke at a Sinn Féin Ard-Fheis. I got abuse from certain individuals in my community – not too many. The people who criticised me the most were senior figures in unionism. I remember reading in a unionist paper saying that "Ray McCord got into bed with the IRA". I have criticised the IRA, the UFV and the UDI.

That is what happens to unionist victims. The politicians do not support you rather they do the opposite. They try to find fault and a reason for your own community to reject you. My community has not rejected me. They want justice for Raymond. They did not believe what I was saying at the outset and I accept that because people were nearly brainwashed into thinking that the British Government cares about victims. I brought with me to this committee a letter I sent to King Charles. I stated it, and I will state it now clearly. My father was in the Orange and the Black and the Orange apprentice boys. I was not in them. People labelled us a strong unionist family but my mother was just Ulster unionist. I have no hesitation saying that, because of what has happened to young Raymond’s case and what has happened to this legacy Bill, I have no allegiance to the crown. I have no allegiance to Parliament. My allegiance is to my family, my friends and, most importantly, to get justice for my son. It is a terrible indictment on the British justice system where I have to come to the Parliament in the capital city of a country that we were led to believe was against all unionists and put my case for the Irish Government to take Raymond’s case. I cannot be any clearer than that. If the Irish Government does not do it, if Raymond’s case goes to Europe and it wins, it is not just Raymond and my family who have won, it is all victims who have won. Again, this is a big moment for the Irish Government.

The Irish Government supported the hooded men, and I know one of them. I met him at an event in Dublin and he gave me a lift home – Francie McGuigan. We have become friends. Who would have said to me years ago, Ray McCord, from the family he comes from, would become friends of one of the hooded men? I have no problem saying it because he was a victim too.