Ms Sin?ad Lucey:

I largely endorse what our colleagues from CLM said. These comments are timely because reviews of the equality legislation and our civil legal aid system are taking place. There is no doubt that the reviews will be fine but unless the resources are put into our civil legal aid system, any other changes will be cosmetic and will not deliver results for people who really need the services to which they relate.

FLAC’s experience is in line with what the Senator pointed out. We get calls on a daily basis about Travellers being refused from pubs, hotels, shops and what have you. It is often in the context of an important family event and that is what is often so upsetting. It is a baptism, holy communion, wedding or, even worse, a funeral. Somebody dies and you have to ring 20 hotels before you can find a place that will accept your booking, and then, you might get a call to say they are suddenly double-booked. The experience is absolutely harrowing for people. All these significant life events are marred by discrimination against the Traveller community. We cannot touch a fraction of the calls we get. We try to advise people, but we cannot take on all those cases. Therefore, it does come back to access to legal. I am sure FLAC and CLM will take any additional resources the Government wants to give us, but that is not a structural answer. In addition, there is a need for local services. Why does somebody have to ring somebody in Dublin to take a case in Cork? That is why the initiative that was mentioned, namely the Traveller Equality and Justice Project in Cork, is so important. That received funding for a period from the EU, but that funding has ended. Funding could certainly be poured in at a local level in Cork. It is a brilliant initiative. It is grassroots and collaborative in nature. FLAC was delighted to partner with UCC on that project.

One point the Senator picked up on relates to the experience of judges in the District Court or whatever, where people are dealing with prosecutions. You might be dealing with a particular judge in respect of a prosecution and then be bringing your case against the relevant local licensed premises to the same judge. Judges are human. They have the same biases, and often harbour unconscious bias that the rest of us have. That is not properly addressed in their training. In the UK, the Equal Treatment Bench Book details how judges can deal with particular groups, whether it is people with disabilities, members of the Traveller community or whomever. There is clearly articulated guidance for judges. Even being conscious of having it stated means it is brought into the reality of the courts. A judge can say, “All right. I have to think a little bit about bias here in how I am approaching this particular community.” They have to understand cultural issues and so on. We do not have that in Ireland, and it is a massive gap.