Ms Patricia Rickard-Clarke:

There is no national mechanism to collect figures on safeguarding. That is the big deficit. We need a framework and for all organisations to put policies in place, apart from the legislation. We need the legislative framework, but we also need all sectors and organisations to put in place policies to collect data. At the moment, if I can give an example, the Department of Social Protection paid out €25 billion in 2024 in pensions, disability payments and so on. The percentage of financial abuse is between 12% and 20%. It is much higher for people who are over 18 years of age. The Department has a vulnerable customers section. It will respond to complaints made, but it does not share that information with other organisations that need to know. It may stop paying a pension to the person who has been collecting it but not using it for the benefit of the adult who is entitled to it. We come across that quite often in advocacy organisations where other elements of abuse are happening. If the bank is notified, it can see that money is going out elsewhere and so forth. It is about all of that, the collection and sharing of data between organisations. There is no reason under the current legislation, either GDPR or the 2018 Act, why the information is not shared, but it is not done because there is no thinking around the necessity to do it. Everyone works in silos.

Why is it not reported? On the Emily case, people could not believe an elderly person was sexually abused in a nursing home. There is a lot of learning to be done in order that people understand and realise we need a legal framework. It will take a year or so to get the legislation. In the meantime, what can we do? I absolutely agree with the Deputy that we have to deal with this matter now. What we would look for, if the committee would agree, is the setting up of a working group to look at what the national safeguarding authority would look like. We will have the Law Reform Commission's report, which we hope will set out some of the teeth the authority should have, the composition of the authority, what Departments should be involved and which organisations should report. We cannot start looking at putting a system in place when the legislation is enacted. We must be ready to meet the legislation when it is enacted.

To return to the concerns about the HSE, there is huge under-reporting, but the question is what organisations have the responsibility under any policy to report this, that or the other. It may not be a crime or offence, but if a person is being abused or exploited, it should be dealt with.