Cian O'Callaghan (Dublin Bay North, Social Democrats)
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On the issue of embodied carbon and the need to have whole-life carbon limits, the Minister of State said this is not directly related to the Bill and that it is highly complex. I would not take that view; I think this is a planning issue. What is happening now in the planning system is applicants are looking for planning permission, and not only is there no limit on the embodied carbon as part of their planning application but there is not even monitoring of that. There should be whole-life carbon limits in respect of anything that is developed. Other countries are ahead of us on this. It is easy to say that any measures to do with the need to tackle climate change are highly complex and therefore we cannot do something. However, those sorts of excuses will not get the planet to where we urgently need to be. In a way, it is not that complicated.

I see the following happening in my own local community. There are buildings with a lot of embodied carbon and developers look for planning permission to demolish them. The developers get planning permission and they demolish and tear down those buildings of huge carbon cost. They transport the material waste from those buildings away at a significant carbon cost and then totally replace them with new materials and buildings at a high carbon cost. It is incredibly destructive for the environment and completely unnecessary. There is nothing in the planning process now that addresses this, unlike in other countries, which are showing leadership in this area. I respectfully say to the Minister of State that this is not highly complex; it is quite simple. Wasteful demolition of existing buildings that should be renovated, rejuvenated and added onto, where appropriate, is occurring. By no means will that be the situation in every case but it certainly will be in many situations.

In my immediate locality, I have seen perfectly good buildings, some of which were not built too long ago and others that, while older, are in good enough condition to be renovated, being torn down for the sake of convenience and expediency, a word I use with all the negativity it has. The Government is quite happy with expediency, given some of the measures in the Bill. This situation could be addressed and changed, and needs to be urgently.

The Minister of State may not accept Deputy Ó Broin's amendment, but we need a much better response to embodied carbon than saying that it might be considered in future legislation on building control. Planning permissions are given to demolish and rebuild in the most unsustainable way. That is a planning issue, not a building control legislation, kick it down the road for a future Government or whatever issue.