Mr. Martin Collins:

Just before I respond to that question, I want to clarify Pavee Point's position on the trailer loan scheme. We are in favour of two schemes, both the trailer loan scheme and a trailer rental scheme running parallel, so that people have a choice. I just want to clarify that. We are absolutely not saying to scrap the trailer loan scheme.

Deputy Stanton referred to another point made in the submission. Something Pavee Point has been advocating since its very inception 40 years ago is the need for an ethnic identifier across our collection of data sets, whether in relation to health, employment or education so that we are able to measure and track progress and outcomes in terms of educational attainment, accommodation provision, and employment opportunities. As someone said earlier, if it cannot be measured, it is very difficult to manage it. We have worked with the CSO for more than 30 years and we managed to get Travellers included in the multiple ethnic affiliations people can choose. We feel it has a really important role to play in highlighting issues of exclusion, inequality and poor outcomes. That information and data can then help inform more evidence-based policy responses to address these issues. The data is absolutely essential in fighting inequality and promoting equality and inclusion.

The ethnic identifier has been introduced in the health service and it is being used by Pobal, the social inclusion local development company, and the information gathered by the Irish Prison Service and the education system. The problem with accommodation, which the Traveller representatives have raised several times on the national Traveller accommodation consultative committee in the Department of Housing, Local Government and Heritage, is that it has only used the category of "Traveller". That is bad practice and, in fact, it is even illegal. There should be a multiple choice. We have argued that we need to use the national census template so that there is a consistent standard across the system not one Department having its own arrangement or template and another Department having another one. It is bad practice. We do not agree with asking only about the grounds of being a Traveller. People need to be able to choose from multiethnic affiliations.

The Deputy is absolutely right that there is a need for training and capacity building on how the information is gathered. Some people feel it is discriminatory, but it is not, far from it. He is spot on. At the end of the day, it is about self-identification, which is one of the key principles. The question is asked and it is up to the individual whether he or she wants to identify as a Traveller. Nobody can decide for you and nobody can force you. There is a set of international human rights principles that inform how this information is gathered because it is quite sensitive and it needs to be managed very carefully. One of the key principles is self-identification.