Mr. Brian Dillon:

The second barrier is that it is fine in principle to be able to talk about Traveller-led initiatives and it sounds good when everyone talks about that, but it is difficult because we cannot be confident about getting the needs right unless we have people who are Travellers trained in dealing with the Traveller community, and we have to invest a serious amount in training. That broader spectrum, which other approved housing bodies do not have, is a barrier because it is not recognised. I do not think we can treat Cena as just another approved housing body.