Ms Frances Byrne:

It is very difficult. Ms Quinn has put it so well. The exact thinking about core funding was to rebalance so that graduates were not just a means to an end. We get between 100 and 250 calls per week from members about many different things. We are handing around our closures document today. We have deliberately not talked about room closures. Again, it goes back to data. There is no obligation to inform anybody if a decision is made. We think there should be an obligation because, at a minimum, the Department should be tracking the closures of those rooms. We are now starting to hear this again. Ms Quinn has put it so well. Being very forward, I assume this question will be asked next week when the Department is before the committee. This is why it is so hard to say one thing would fit. As Ms Quinn has said, there are settings and we are seeing in the official numbers that school age is the increasing part of the puzzle now. It is coming into registration. We are starting to see many more settings open and broaden their services. It seems to be the area of expansion with a very small leeway at the moment but certainly we are seeing it. If there is an increase in ECCE capitation, that is not going to help them. Then we have the problem where costs are different. We have members in different parts of the same areas of Dublin, Mayo, or Donegal, who have different cost bases. It is very challenging and one would have some sympathy with the policymakers who are trying to make these decisions. Nevertheless, as we said earlier, the Department has data it never had before, so there has to be a way of doing this. There has to be a way that satisfies the transparency that is needed about Exchequer funding, and as Ms Clarke said, that meets real need. We in Early Childhood Ireland have looked at this and we have not been convinced of a single solution. I think it is fair to acknowledge this and on behalf of the Department too in recognising that this is the reality with which it is trying to deal. This is not the system one would have built and we all know that. There is a transition piece. We have talked about this. It is one of the reasons we want a five-year plan. The direction of travel is a publicly-funded model. As Ms Ahern has said and as we have said, we need a discussion about what that will look like but we need a five-year plan and a new target. The target for 2028 will be reached this year. That is incredible and it is really welcome. We need a new target. We understand the implementation plan for the next phase of First Five is coming out. We really hope to see that in that strategy but we need a five-year plan to address some of these issues as well as give overall certainty to the sector. We think the answer lies somewhat in there. As I said, we do not think there is one single solution to this. This makes our lives very difficult but that is the reality as Ms Quinn and others have said. I wish we had a solution.