Ms Marian Quinn:

I thank Deputy Sherlock for his comments. Since 2003 we have been consistent in our message that we want the State to pay the wages and salaries. We want that funding ring-fenced. That would take a lot of issues out of the equation. It is difficult because we are looking for multi-annual funding but the Department continuously talks about budgets being every year and therefore it cannot do multi-annual funding. Part of the challenge is that our parent Department is responsible for children, equality, disability, integration and youth. One cannot argue with the Minister if he says that this year he needs to focus on disability or equality but this is a problem that is decades in the making and it is getting worse. We have been before this committee a few times and the Deputy has been consistent in urging us to get the message straight. A consistent message was demonstrated on the streets in 2020 just before Covid, when 30,000 people turned out to call for improvements in the conditions for educators. If we can sort that out, then there is a smaller piece that needs to be sorted out.

In terms of case management, the reality is that we want to improve the quality of service but case management is about a business model of provision for early years. It is about reducing down to the lowest number of staff required by ratio. The minimum ratio does not work because one cannot take care of three babies at once, one cannot change a baby's nappy and still be in the room with the other two children and so on. Minimum ratios do not work; they do not allow people to have lunch, for example, or do all of the things needed. Case management is flawed because it is based on a business model. We keep saying that we do not want a business model for early years care and education so why do we do case management based on a business model? That is the problem.