Ms Frances Byrne:

I do not have much to add except to respond to Senator Seery Kearney's question about capacity and the capital grants. Things have improved a little bit in that the Department used to literally go from year to year. Therefore, 2016 might have had a focus on outdoors, for example. It did not; I just cannot remember what it was. Then, in 2017, it would be something else and, in 2018, it would be something else. We worked hard to tell the Department that is not helping and it does not help anyone with planning.

To be fair, during Covid and since, we have been heard, so now everybody knows what is coming next in terms of the next couple of years and how much money there will be. In the absence of effective planning and all the other things the Senator talked about, however, it is important now because the development piece has been introduced. I am talking about planning in that sense, but also the planning we spoke about earlier. In the absence of that good, effective planning, the capital funding is affected.

To be very honest, we were really taken aback when we saw the figures. I do not remember who flushed them out through a parliamentary question - it could have been the Senator herself - but I genuinely do not remember so I apologise. We fact-checked and double-checked because we were so taken aback by the low number. We did talk to some members. We have some active member reference groups. Some of it was timing and some of it was just capacity. Therefore, it is very hard to know from one capital funding application to the next one what exactly is getting in the way. Certainly, however, the foresight we have seen, that is, announcing in three-year cycles, is really welcome because at least people can be ready and plan. However, if we were doing better planning on both sides, we would probably get more applications. There would be a much higher demand if people knew what they were facing into and, again, it goes back to our five-year plan idea. Therefore, if people knew what the core funding, the national childcare scheme, NCS, or the demographics were going to look like, they could then take that chance and speak to that local developer or apply for the capital funding because they would be able to attract the staff or be able to offer a pay scale. It is all those issues other colleagues have spoken to. The need for all of that is very interlinked in the sector.

Like the Senator, I have to say, I have been appalled. She is not the first Member of the Oireachtas to raise this issue. The ability to get out of, if I could put it that way, not providing an essential public good and service has been raised with us privately by Members of the Oireachtas. The presence of one-and two-bedroom apartments is very divorced from the reality of the way people live their lives and it is very divorced from the reality of our housing issue. I absolutely and completely support the Senator in that. It is really not good enough that that has been allowed to happen. I thank the Senator.