Ms Sue Windle:

That is clear and I can also speak to this. We have clients who will not go into any public service without one of us to buffer them because there is the fear of being discriminated against. The capability is there, but the confidence is not, because at every hand's turn, the accessibility or the treatment has been poor. They would rather come via our service and use us as a buffer or a safety net when they access services. As Mr. Reilly said earlier, people will come to our organisations in order to access what they can do themselves. It is a matter of the safety piece.