Mr. Simon White:

I understand the Deputy's position, and I sympathise and empathise. We have been through it. We talk consistently about how what we are doing is pushing elephants uphill, and the elephants are sitting down. We are fed up with it but it is our job to do it. We have to do it on behalf of our members who plead with us every day of the week. They come to us asking what to do and how to help. We are trying to do our best. The pressure is building. The general public is much more aware now because of our campaigns and the help of the committee. People understand what is happening. There has to be a change. I spoke about the work group in the Department. There has to be a cultural change in the Department. I recognise it is and has been in a mess. There are good personnel in the Department but there has to be a change in personnel. We have seen some change and there is always hope with new people coming in. When Mr. Savage takes over as assistant secretary, the first thing I will try to do is get a meeting with him. If a direction is given from the top that the job must be done, then it can be done. It also has to be done politically and that direction has to come from the politicians. The Ministers are the ones who matter.