Dr. Martha O'Hagan-Luff:

There might be a problem with the system but we need to push back against that.

I think The Limits to Growth report referred to the zero on the balance sheet as a big problem. Nature has been a zero. From the perspective of investors, I have looked closely at reports which refer to biodiversity credits or forestry credits. They all have a financial return. There should not be a financial return. They must be talking about timber supply, which is just one of the benefits. The European Commission has done great work. There is a report stating that when 15% of the value of forestry is timber supplies, 85% of the value of a forest is from other ecosystem services. Businesses need to look at that. Regulation is pushing them that way and stating that it is not just about financial return but value in a broader sense. They need to look at the value they are creating for society and nature. Nobody is promising a financial return with these credits. There is no financial return. One is putting money towards nature restoration and the return is the nature-positive impact that one is having. The minute it is said there is a financial return, I would be dubious about what is going on with the project in question.