Dr. Mary Dobbs:

I worked with Dr. Doran for many years before I began working in Maynooth University and he will laugh because I am always the less philosophical person when it comes to these debates. On whether it should be two questions, I agree with the other witnesses that there are two separate questions: one on the environmental rights and another on the rights of nature. Dr. Doran’s point about the conversation and explaining the relationship and complementarity is also very important, however. I understand the perspective of Deputy Murphy that we could take the more selfish approach and go for just human rights. If he is interested in having both rights, however, would he be interested in the risk of having no rights? There is a chance that if the referendum goes to the people and the questions are all grouped together but the people do not like one set of the rights or the other, one will end up with no rights. That is part of the reason for trying to clarify what each group of rights is and that a person can vote for both of them as separate issues, while still grouping the substantive and procedural for humans as well as the substantive and procedural for rights of nature.

In the context of going to the indigenous population - this is very much drawing on my role as part of the expert advisory group in the citizens’ assembly - it was inspiring and incredibly interesting to see the response of the assembly members from day one in respect of the inherent links with and rights of nature. This was raised by other members of the expert advisory group at a previous meeting of the committee in September. In particular, things like Brehon law were flagged. In the course of the assembly, Dr. Elva Johnston gave a talk on the personality of nature that was recognised in Brehon law in trees and specific creatures, which is also reflected in mythology, and the rules and rights attached to specific trees but also to bees and so forth. That discussion continued throughout the assembly, such as through a talk by Manchán Magan on links with the Irish language, but also through the remarks of Mr. Patrick Joyce, who was one of the assembly members. I am naming him as he was at the committee and I am referring specifically to his remarks at the committee meeting last month. He spoke about how he simply enjoys sitting and reflecting and enjoying the nature on his farm. That connection with the land is very much present in Ireland and that helps to explain why there was so much support. I was surprised at the level of support, but that is because I come from the academic side of things. I was genuinely surprised at the level of support from the assembly members, who were very pro rights of nature.