Oireachtas Joint and Select Committees

Tuesday, 26 September 2023

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Foreign Affairs and Trade, and Defence

Implementation of the Recommendations of the Report of the Commission on the Defence Forces: Discussion

Photo of Gerard CraughwellGerard Craughwell (Independent)
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My first questions are for Lieutenant General Clancy. I welcome his support for the issue of the seagoing allowance for the Naval Service, which is important. On the issue of the working time directive, it appears to many of us that the talks have stalled. Will he comment on that and advise as to whether the Defence Forces are now recording the hours worked by their members in order that we can put a healthier face on it? Historically, the Reserve had a footprint throughout the highways and byways of Ireland, as has been said. It was effectively disbanded as a result of the 2013 reorganisation. The saving involved was €40 million, which was tiny in light of the contribution the reserves made to their local communities and of the impact the Reserve had on recruiting for both the cadet corps and enlisted personnel. I look now at the Reserve Defence Force and wonder where, if I lived in a place such as Belmullet, I would go to join or how I could become a member of the Defence Forces. If I lived in Headford, County Galway, I would probably that bit too far away.

On the issue of pay, we constantly hear the figure of €38,000 for a person coming out of recruit training or €42,000 for a cadet who entered immediately after leaving school, and it sounds pretty good on the face of it, but there is no other occupation in the country where someone is on call 24 hours a day, seven days a week. I recall during my own service attending to a fire in a forest in Oughterard, when I left home on a Sunday and did not come back for three weeks. These things happen and the Defence Forces are constantly available in the event of a national disaster, a snowstorm or whatever. They will always turn out and be there. The €38,000, therefore, does not sound so good when we boil it down to the level and breadth of duties that people have to carry out.

Turning to the Secretary General, the Department of Public Expenditure, National Development Plan Delivery and Reform recently carried out an organisational capability review and recommended the remediation of those practices relating to the governance of the Defence Forces that are unduly and unhelpfully focused on day-to-day activities. The Department wanted the establishment of an appropriate mechanism of governance, responsibility and accountability. What progress has the Department of Defence made in the implementation of that recommendation?

The organisational capability review also pointed out problems for principal officers in the Department such as the lack of autonomy. What has the Department done to resolve that problem? We constantly hear about cultural issues in the Defence Forces. Would Ms McCrum accept that there are cultural issues in the Department that need to be sorted out? Has she taken steps to sort them out?

Ms McCrum was a great supporter of Women of Honour and gave a lot of time to those women when they first came into the public domain. They asked her to recuse herself from being a member of the external oversight body. I have written to Ms McCrum and the Minister pointing out that there is a certain amount of difficulty with Ms McCrum being on the external oversight body. I would be interested in hearing her comments on that.

What efforts have been made to empower and increase the autonomy of the Chief of Staff in the transformation of the Defence Forces? I note that the Department has appointed a head of strategic HR. We had a head of strategic HR before and I saw nothing come from HR that improved the Defence Forces or any initiatives or policies coming forward during that period. Has the new head of strategic HR been briefed and told precisely what the Department needs?

Is the external oversight body in danger of being seen to be hijacked as a vehicle to increase the Department's already inappropriate control of the day-to-day business of the Defence Forces as seen by some outside? I am not saying the Department has that. I am saying these issues are brought to me and those who bring those issues to me deserve an answer. If they feel that way, they need it. I will leave it at that. Those questions are significant enough.