Mr. Patrick Casey:

I thank the Deputy for the question. I will build on what Mr. Kincaid said. It will be all the more challenging when the instant payment mechanism comes in to stop a fraudulent situation from occurring because payments will be moving all the quicker. That will be a real challenge as regards instant payments, hence the importance of tackling this issue upfront with a whole-of-system approach. As things stand with credit transfers, when a separate payment is made domestically, it settles the evening of the following day, giving more time to initiate retrieval of the funds in a fraudulent situation. That is very significant. It goes to the Deputy's point about having that bit of a gap to realise after the payment has gone. There is at least a chance of responding, particularly in the working week. That has been a feature of the recovery levels within firms.

The broader issue is that of balance between convenience to the consumer, the reduced execution times people want, which were spoken about, and the importance of that from a consumer benefit perspective, versus the resilience, safety and security of the payments system, which we referenced, and wanting to deliver on that at the same time. Both those challenges are difficult. The pick-up in figures in the UK for authorised payment fraud has been substantial because the UK introduced its equivalent of instant payments, known as faster payments, at an earlier point in the cycle than we have. Such fraud is a much more prevalent problem in the UK.

The other challenge to highlight is all of this is taking place when technology is changing very quickly, particularly in respect of mobile phones. Social engineering is having such an influence in people's lives, especially since the Covid period. That can be seen in the nature of how fraud is taking place. It used to be unauthorised payment fraud but authorised payment fraud is becoming much more of a feature because of the influence of fraudsters.