Mr. Eugene Gargan:

To paraphrase Deputy Stanton's question, he asked about the wider societal and social benefit of service in the military. We absolutely subscribe to that idea. To speak about how I have benefited from service in the Reserve, I can see the value in my career and in my capability. It is of benefit to citizenship. In economic terms, the experience of engaging with the training and being part of that whole organisation is recognised as an externality. It bleeds over and is a form of training for other individuals. Those of us who have served recognise that more acutely than people who have only ever been civilians. I take the Deputy's point but I will point out that, when we raised this is a secondary effect of service in the Reserve a number of years ago, all the way back at the time of the value-for-money review, if people remember that, the thinking at the time among the most senior levels in the military was that there was no other value to the Reserve outside of its strict military value. When our capabilities were run down, we had very little value in strict military terms. We dispute that. We recognise that there is loads of value and many benefits to the economy and wider society in the Reserve.

The Deputy also asked about the cost of training, reminding me of a comment I made during a previous appearance here. The point I made back then is that none of us serve in the RDF to make money. We do so because it is an expression of our patriotism - that is a reason for me - because of the sense of comradery and community, because it is a challenge and because we wish to do something different and to lead that life less ordinary. That is not just a cliché for us; we really actively embrace it. We want to play our part. However, it comes at a cost to our family lives and the amount of time we have to spend doing anything else, whether recreationally, for our employers or for our families. It also hits us in the pocket. If we are going to drive out to barracks and have to pass a toll bridge either way, that represents a direct cost. There is also the cost of fuel. You have to look after your own uniform and all of that kind of thing as well and you are doing it for free. I make the argument that, if you are doing it for free, it is volunteering in the wrong sense. The phrase we hear back is "Well, you are volunteers." That is true but we are volunteers in the military sense. We are not volunteers in that we are doing it for no value. If we are doing it and not getting paid appropriately for it, it is literally worthless. I do not think anybody should be working for nothing in that kind of context. If it is worthless, it creates all sorts of other problems. I will pass back to Mr. Richardson on that matter because there are a few points he wanted to make on it.