H.E. Mr. Ion de la Riva:

I thank the Deputy for the mention of Gibraltar. I will address that too, because it was a point discussed by the Taoiseach and our Prime Minister earlier this year. We are the only countries in the European Union that share a border or a fence, whatever one wants to call it, with the UK. We were following in detail the discussion that led to the Windsor framework agreement because it has implications for us. We also want to protect the Single Market from dumping and other illegalities we feel could take place in Gibraltar. Gibraltar is not Northern Ireland. It stands at the crossroads of the Atlantic and the Mediterranean. There are a number of worrying issues when it comes to the visits of nuclear submarines. Spain regularly makes a protest to the UK Government on these practices. There is also some smuggling going on. It is a hot spot for a lot of controversial topics. We followed closely what went on between the North here, the UK and the Irish Government. We were happy an agreement was reached. Ireland stands to have a great future if this is solved and if there is an Executive in place in the North, which is not the case now. Gibraltar is another kettle of fish altogether but the fact remains we have a border, which we call a fence because we do not accept it as a border. We think Gibraltar is part of Spain. This is a legacy of colonialism, like in the Irish case, and it should be overcome as UN resolutions have made clear a number of times, though to no avail. It is a serious problem for us.

Returning to the strategy, the Deputy mentioned a lot of topics for five minutes, but Spain is very aware we need enlargement. I say this knowing these countries may not be prepared to join the EU now and we may not be prepared to integrate them properly at this stage. However, it is now or never. We have to give them reassurance they can find some hope in joining the EU, whether that is Moldova, Ukraine, and later on Georgia or the western Balkans. As I said before talking about Latin America, if there is a vacuum it will be filled. As we have seen there are a number of strategic risks that could become a fundamental concern for all of us if we do not address the rest of Europe, including Kosovo. As the Deputy knows, there is a Spanish position, which is still there, of not accepting Kosovo. When you are with friends and allies you should be able to agree on things you disagree upon and this is a question on which we disagreed from the beginning. Kosovo is again in a dire situation with the Serbian communities within Kosovo. The Spanish Presidency will follow this very closely and do so on all our behalf, not just because of our position on Kosovo but to ensure human rights and minority rights are respected by Kosovars and by Serbia.

The Deputy mentioned the rule of law and it is an important issue. The EU Presidency, from a Spanish perspective, has as much to do on economic security and securing our borders as it has to do with values. Putin made it clear in that speech that he objects to the West and especially to Europe because of our values, which differ fundamentally from the ones he believes should be Russian values. We think that is absolutely wrong and he should show respect for minorities in Russia and for the rule of law. Unfortunately, this question of the rule of law is also fundamental to keeping European unity and not letting other countries take a perspective which is more likely to please Russia rather than being in a club where this is an obligation. The rule of law cannot be questioned.

The Deputy mentioned Catalonia and the Basque country. I am a Basque and a very proud Basque. The good thing about plurinational states like Spain is we were, in a way, the forerunners of the European Union.

We had historic nations and kingdoms and regions. Part of Spain was under Islamic rule. Spain is a very complex society. It is difficult to pin us down with mechanisms because we are a country that is used to civil wars and civil strifes and we have managed to stick together through thick and thin. There are episodes that have encompassed all of us such as the discovery of America or the American adventure. There are also unfortunately episodes where all of us were together such as the civil war. This makes the dearest objective to all Spaniards, whether they are Catalan, Basque, from Andalusia or Madrid, that we should co-exist peacefully. That is essential. That should be our main objective because of our history of difference and because, as I said, we are the forearm of the European Union in the sense that we encompassed different sovereignties when the historic kingdoms were in place and we have to pull together and get our act together in the same way that the European Union has different identities, traditions and histories. Some countries were under communist dictatorship for a long time. We were under a fascist dictatorship like others such as Portugal, Italy and Germany. When I discuss things with other colleagues, this comes to the surface. However, peaceful co-existence in Spain is essential. This is what makes some cases in the Basque Country and Catalonia so terrifying for most of Spaniards, and even for their own populations. The Catalonia of today has nothing to do with the Catalonia of 2017. Those dramatic episodes with the unilateral referendum and the repression thereafter, have, thank God, been overcome with common sense and a lot of concessions from both sides. As was seen in the last elections and even now recently, we now have a socialist mayor of Barcelona. That would have been unthinkable in 2017. We have a peaceful Catalonia today in which, of course, people who seek independence are as legitimate as people who oppose. This is a very divisive issue in Catalonia. It is not Catalans against Spaniards. Catalonia, as the members will know, is a bit like the Scottish case in which the population is very divided as to where they should go but all of them understand that unilateral solutions or repression is not the solution. We have to live together and to accept that some people want an independent Catalonia as much as people who want to stay in Spain because they think their identity should also be respected as Catalans and Spaniards. Some only feel Catalan; some only feel Spanish.

As for the Basque Country, as members will know, the question is even more terrifying because we, like Ireland, had a lot of armed struggle and political violence. It is difficult to live with that legacy. However, also in this case, through a lot of concessions and efforts, and victims and terrorists - and from each standpoint one gets a different story - the important thing is that we have moved forward. The issue of victims has been addressed. The question of accepting responsibility and asking for forgiveness has been put. We now have Euskal Herria Bildu in parliament whose members are heirs to Eusko Alkartasuna, a party which again was politically involved in the arms struggle and terrorist acts, and whose members now debate like any other party in parliament. I am very happy this is the case as a Basque, that we can live with no anonymous threats coming every day.

Catalonia is very different from 2017 as is certainly the Basque Country. Most of the population in the Basque Country are very happy with the home rule that it gets, which is substantially different from the rest of the federated regions or comunidad autónomasas we say. We have a special status that is respected by all Spanish parties and that has won the approval and support of 70% of the Basques. I remember the old days during our troubles when it was hell on earth for all kinds of people. There were victims on both sides and terrible episodes of human right breaches but all that is now history. In this, Spain stands together, having understood that we have to live with our differences whether they are ideological or due to different histories we have. I am very happy to say that we have a common approach. Everyone is in parliament. Even protestors of the 15-M Movement, who occupied Puerta del Sol square which led to Occupy Wall Street, are now Podemos–IU and Sumar and are part of the political spectrum. Spain has a lot of complexities but it also has this wonderful thing in that it is capable of absorbing differences, whether it is people who want independence or who are against the system, and we have shown the world we are capable of going through these crises that are recurrent. I do not say this is over. The debate of independence is certainly not over, whether in the Basque Country or in Catalonia and many solutions can be envisaged. However, fundamentally we all want to co-exist peacefully. We do not want unilateral moves or repression. That is what I have to say about this but I thank the members very much for mentioning the Gibraltar issue because it is something that is very dear to us and which we follow with great care. We are also very happy to be able to share the complexities of overcoming a legacy of colonialism with our Irish friends.