Mr. Justin Kelly:

The problem is this is a numbers game. With the organised crime groups involved in this, it is like a brute-force attack. The Deputy was correct to mention AI, but the criminal groups have electronic methods, as I am sure the committee is aware, that allow them to multiply their forces in a way we never saw heretofore. When I joined the organisation 30 years ago, it was cheque fraud, credit card fraud and skimming.

The ability they now have in terms of cyber-enabled activities is the reason behind those multiple attacks. I would not like to say it is exactly like whack-a-mole but every time we or the banks put pressure on an area and close a loop, they move to another area. These people and groups are incredibly organised. It is not a couple of people in box rooms organising this; these are highly organised groups with hierarchical structures. Without publicly going into a lot of detail, we know exactly how they work and how detailed they are at each level. This is a huge business for them. As a result of the risk levels, indigenous criminals here have moved from what they did previously into these easier types of fraud. Without labouring the point, cash-in-transit attacks were a significant issue in the 1980s and 1990s but we have not seen a big armed robbery cash-in-transit attack for a long time, touch wood, and that is because criminals have found far easier ways to make money without putting themselves under that risk. They know we have armed support units, intelligence operations, surveillance and so on. They are moving to easier methods of making large volumes of money. People who were involved in traditional violent organised crime have moved into these areas.