Colm Brophy (Dublin South West, Fine Gael)
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On behalf of the committee I welcome the Minister of State at the Department of Foreign Affairs with special responsibility for EU Affairs, Deputy Peter Burke, who is joined by officials from his Department. At today's meeting we will consider the motion referred to the committee by the Dáil and Seanad yesterday relating to the proposed approval of the terms of agreement establishing the EU Latin America and Caribbean, LAC, Foundation.

Before we begin, I will read a note on privilege. We are reminded of the longstanding parliamentary practice that we should not criticise or make charges against any person or entity by name or in such a way as to make him or her identifiable or otherwise engage in speech that might be regarded as damaging to the good name of a person or entity. Therefore, if members' statements are potentially defamatory in relation to an identifiable person or entity, they will be directed to discontinue their remarks. It is imperative that they comply with such direction. Members are reminded of the long-standing parliamentary practice to the effect that they should not comment on, criticise or make charges against a person outside of the Houses or an official either by name or in such a way as to make him or her identifiable. I also remind members of the constitutional requirement that they must be physically present within the confines of the Leinster House complex in order to participate in public meetings. I will not permit a member to participate where they are not adhering to this requirement. Therefore, any member who attempts to participate from outside the precincts will be asked to leave the meeting. In this regard, I ask any member partaking via MS Teams to confirm they are on the grounds of the Leinster House campus prior to making their contribution.

With that done, I call on the Minister of State to make his opening statement.

Peter Burke (Longford-Westmeath, Fine Gael)
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I am pleased to appear before the committee today seeking approval to proceed with the ratification of the EU LAC Foundation international agreement, following the referral of the relevant Dáil motion to the committee yesterday. Members will be aware that in February last year, Ireland's strategy for the Latin America and Caribbean region was launched under the Global Ireland initiative.

The strategy contains more than 60 commitments mapped to five key objectives, covering political, economic, development co-operation, cultural and diaspora-based engagement with the countries of the region. The strategy is delivering a sea change in terms of Irish engagement with the Latin America and the Caribbean, LAC, region and the vast majority of its commitments are already undergoing implementation.

A key commitment in the strategy is to ratify the agreement that establishes the EU-LAC Foundation as an international organisation. This agreement was signed by Ireland back in 2016. As members are aware, the EU-LAC Foundation is made up of the members of the EU and the community of Latin American and Caribbean states, CELAC. Its principal objective is to strengthen the bi-regional partnership and it conducts a range of initiatives across a host of priority themes in order to do this. Its key lines of action, which chime with Irish and EU priorities for the relationship with the LAC region, include education, climate, gender, multilateral co-operation, culture, science, technology and innovation, and social and economic development.

We are one of just two member states yet to ratify the agreement. It is important to ratify it as soon as possible. Ratification will send a clear signal to EU and CELAC partners around the value we place on the bi-regional relationship and the work of the foundation.

Like Ireland, the EU has also been prioritising enhanced engagement with Latin America and the Caribbean. As part of the efforts to step up engagement, an EU-CELAC leaders summit will take place in Brussels in July this year, with the Taoiseach scheduled to attend. Ensuring that the EU-LAC Foundation agreement is ratified by Ireland before the summit is of great importance.

For all of these reasons, approval of the committee to proceed with ratification of the agreement is sought today. I would be happy to answer any questions from committee members on the issue and I thank them all sincerely for their time.

Ruairi Ó Murchú (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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I thank the Minister of State and his entourage for coming. It looks pretty straightforward in the sense of who would be against any sort of engagement with Latin American and the Caribbean. This is a part of the world where their relationship with America has not always been perfect. That is a circumstance from a European Union point of view, not something we want to necessarily absolutely be part of.

What exactly will this look like in the tail end? What is the difference in what we are proposing? What sort of engagement are we are talking about? We are covering over talking about trade deals. While that is a competence of the European Union, I think a huge number of Members across this campus would have particular issues in respect of Mercosur and other trade deals. What is the difference between what we have at the minute and what we will have if this is passed? What sort of engagements are we talking about?

Peter Burke (Longford-Westmeath, Fine Gael)
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Through this foundation and agreement, we are focused on strengthening relationships across the LAC area. Events such as seminars, cultural programmes, research, dialogues, trainings, networking and fostering active civil society across the region would be-----

Ruairi Ó Murchú (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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What sort of research?

Colm Brophy (Dublin South West, Fine Gael)
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Let the Minister of State answer.

Peter Burke (Longford-Westmeath, Fine Gael)
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-----key in terms of digitalisation and the challenges we are facing now as part of the European Union. Latin America and the Caribbean will absolutely be central to fostering stronger relationships across the whole digitalisation area. That is one of the key areas that is up for discussion at the summit in July, along with security issues, sustainability and climate. It is important that we strengthen those relationships with that area.

One key thing I saw when I was in the UN in February when we had a motion trying to again resolve a huge determination against the aggression shown by the Russian Federation against Ukraine was that we need to be careful in how we engage with other countries. Priority can be lost regarding the issues that pertain to those Latin American and Caribbean states and we need to ensure they do not wane with respect to the resolution for that Russian aggression. If we do not step up our engagement as the EU with areas like Latin America and the Caribbean, others will fill that void. That is why this agreement is important.

Colm Brophy (Dublin South West, Fine Gael)
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One very small-----

Ruairi Ó Murchú (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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I agree that it is absolutely necessary. Because of some of the history in Latin American and the Caribbean, there will be people who will see this conflict through the prism of their own histories. It is vital that we have a positive engagement. Some of the issues the Minister of State talked about in relation to research are in an area that is constantly changing. Listen to the news this morning on AI. We all know the issues with cybersecurity. With the changed geopolitical circumstances, we are all talking about food security, energy security and all those issues. It is vital that it is a positive interaction with a part of the world that has not necessarily been treated particularly well by its largest neighbour.

Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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I thank the Minister of State for the presentation. I have a couple of questions. The first is a procedural one. There are only two countries – ourselves and Bulgaria – that have not ratified. I am afraid it is invariably the case that the Oireachtas is always late being asked by line Departments. I have had that out with the Department of Justice consistently. In the Minister of State’s speech, he said he wants it done by summer. Better if it came earlier and we could have it done earlier, if that is the view, rather than assuming that we will rubber stamp everything at the last minute. That is my general defence of the Oireachtas point.

I wish to raise a few issues. Regarding Ireland’s footprint, Latin America and the Caribbean has never been a strong focus for Ireland. In recent years, there was a time when we only had two embassies in Latin America. A lot of the northern part of South America was serviced from Mexico. There was huge resentment about that when one visited these places. I am interested in hearing, from an Irish perspective, how the Minister of State sees the Irish footprint in Latin America being developed. The Caribbean is probably even more neglected. I am not sure we have an embassy in any Caribbean country. They are all served by mainland embassies. Our distinguished Uachtarán na hÉireann many years ago did a profile of the Caribbean’s emerald isle - I do not know if the Minister of State remembers that – linking the great heritage of, I think it was Montserrat, with Ireland not only because it is green but because of its enormous Irish heritage. I am interested in hearing how we are going to improve our footprint.

The Minister of State will not be surprised by my second question. The ratification of an institute like this is important and I do not think it is controversial. I think we will be able to do it without any difficulty at all. Probably more controversial would be the Mercosur agriculture agreement that is pending and referenced in the Minister of State’s speech. He might give us an update on where we are in terms of presenting that deal to the Houses of the Oireachtas.

Peter Burke (Longford-Westmeath, Fine Gael)
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I fully understand Deputy Howlin’s frustration regarding having to approve issues such as this at short notice. From dealing with the Office of the Attorney General, I understand that the legalities of drafting this agreement took more time than we would have liked. I know from trying to deal with some initiatives in my last Department that there is huge competition in terms of priorities in the Attorney General’s office. It can be frustrating in terms of trying to get information to you-----

Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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We do not necessarily have to be the last always though.

Peter Burke (Longford-Westmeath, Fine Gael)
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Absolutely, and I hear that frustration. However, having worked on some other issues, it can be surprising how long it takes to get them to that stage.

On the Deputy’s direct question, since we founded our strategy regarding Latin America and the Caribbean in February 2022, there has been a huge increase in activity in that area. We have had eight outward high-level political visits. There are six missions now operating across the region. We opened an office of Central America within our embassy in Mexico in January 2023. We are strengthening our engagement right across the region, which we believe is a huge priority, critically for the reasons I referenced in my opening remarks.

We are increasing staffing levels at our six missions as well and the completing transfer of accreditation for seven Caribbean states from our mission in New York embassies right into the region. All of that forms part of the work as well as through the Oireachtas. The launch of the parliamentary friendship groups through Argentina, Brazil and Mexico is another strand and layer that is trying to foster and strengthen relationships. That will continue at pace.

In regard to Mercosur, obviously we are waiting for the publication of the final instrument. There is an annex or an agreement currently being worked on in regard to the sustainability aspect of the agreement which provoked huge concern from our agri-industry and in regard to non-sustainable activity happening in that area. We are doing the best we can in terms of producing green foods. Our agri-industry operates at a high standard. We are awaiting publication and annex 2 of the agreement is also being worked on. It has not been published yet, to my knowledge.

Sharon Keogan (Independent)
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I have a few questions. Deputy Howlin covered the point on the AU-Mercosur deal. Considering the troubling scenarios seen in both regions how have the recent geopolitical economic health and environmental challenges affected EU-LAC relations? What opportunities can be identified for this relationship? What do we need to do to seize those opportunities? How has the region dealt with concrete cases of political economic and humanitarian crises, such as that we saw in Venezuela when that economy collapsed and there was a political uprising leading to 6 million refugees leaving Venezuela? What is the impact of the agreement on human rights in the EU? What are the challenges around that? What has this agreement done in regard to addressing the social tensions and humanitarian crises endangering human rights? Does the new agreement include the exchange of students? Did I hear Deputy Burke say that earlier?

Peter Burke (Longford-Westmeath, Fine Gael)
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Our strategy includes an exchange of students. A number of students are currently here doing masters degrees through that agreement. However, as I said from the outset, taking it in broad terms, building relations with this area is vulnerable to other forces coming in. The EU has an obligation to work with Latin America and the Caribbean states to strengthen our relationships there and to promote human rights at every opportunity. The EU has a record, as does the Council of Europe which fosters stronger ties to ensure the rights of individual citizens in those countries are upheld. At every turn we promote that with our bilateral relationships. Second, the financial aid we provide to those countries is quite significant. In 2021 and 2022 we provided €2.5 million in funding to Venezuela through the UN agencies in direct support. Obviously we have been to the forefront in all those countries that are suffering human rights issues and in calling that out in some regimes and looking for free and fair elections in other jurisdictions.

It is a big challenge but how do we work to unlock that challenge? My belief is dialogue is important, working with these countries, strengthening relationships, having more high-level visits as I have referenced and really trying to work to improve relations and provide funding through the UN. As I said, being very new to this job, when I was in the UN in February I could see so many countries that are more vulnerable looking for a watered-down resolution. Accountability was referenced for Russia. Trying to build stronger coalitions and get over the 140 barrier has been a huge challenge. That opens our eyes as a whole European Union to how hard we have to work with countries in this regard.

Sharon Keogan (Independent)
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I thank Deputy Burke.

Seán Haughey (Dublin Bay North, Fianna Fail)
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To take up Deputy Howlin’s point on the late ratification, it would seem Ireland and Bulgaria have yet to ratify it. It is important that we ratify in time for this summit in July. The Dáil goes into recess on 13 July. No doubt we will be bombarded with motions and legislation. No matter how much we try it never seems to change. The President is concerned about it, as we know. We are ratifying this and that is a good thing.

It is good to focus on the strategy for Latin America and the Caribbean, as the Minister of State said. That was published last February. It is the first ever strategy for this key region which is home to 650 million people and generates billions of euro per annum in trade with Irish companies. Even from the point of view of trade this strategy is really important. I also take on board what the Minister of State said on the geopolitical situation. The EU needs friends in the world at this time. It is important that we are proactive in this particular region.

There is mention of possible EU trade deals with Mexico, Chile and Mercosur, as was discussed already. I wish us well in that regard. We are still trying to ratify CETA. This committee spent hours and hours looking at that and of course the Dáil has still not ratified it yet. I suspect it will be a bumpy road in regard to these trade deals as well.

I have one question. I am pleased that climate change will be a part of this agreement with the areas on which there will be a focus. I recall the Prime Minister of Barbados addressed either COP26 or COP27 and basically said that her country is going to disappear as a result of climate change. That is a real concern for some countries in this particular region. I want the Minister of State to assure me that the Taoiseach will bring to the fore the issue of climate change in the region and how Ireland and the EU can help in that regard. Also, there will be the issue of refugees in due course as a result of climate change. That is an issue with which we all have to grapple eventually. I hope that the Taoiseach will focus on climate change, among the many other issues to be addressed at this summit in July.

Peter Burke (Longford-Westmeath, Fine Gael)
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I thank Deputy Haughey for his remarks. What he says is absolutely correct, first in regard to challenges faced by these countries and, second, building up ties and relationships is so important and of huge value to the EU into the future in a very uncertain geopolitical space. In the Community of Latin American and Caribbean States, CELAC, conference in July, climate is going to be one of the key areas of the agenda. We have a huge body of work to do in that regard. The Taoiseach will be to the forefront in raising those concerns, not only raising them but trying to do something about them, trying to change the way in which we approach trade deals. Obviously Mercosur is one of the key issues in regard to the concerns that are raised in this State about the adverse consequences of climate change and ways other countries could, through unintended consequences, be incentivised in the agri-market. Hopefully the annex to this agreement will satisfy some of those concerns. I have not seen that as yet but I was advised yesterday that it is currently being worked on. Hopefully it will be robust because we need those safeguards in our trade agreements. I will bring the Deputy's remarks to the attention of the Taoiseach.

Robert Troy (Longford-Westmeath, Fianna Fail)
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I welcome the Minister of State, Deputy Burke, to our committee this morning. As somebody who in his previous role worked with the previous Tánaiste in developing our own trade strategy, this dovetails into that because it is about utilising our position within the EU to build relationships on a broader, global scale. As someone who visited Mexico with Enterprise Ireland I had an opportunity to see at first hand the huge opportunities that are there. The Minister of State will know as he hails from the same constituency, that the Mergon factory in north Westmeath has a new plant in Mexico. That is contributing to the success of industry here in Ireland and to the success of the Irish economy. It is important and I want to add my voice in support of this agreement today.

Going back, we have strong historical links with Latin America, in particular with Argentina. My wife’s great-granduncle was the first Irish ambassador to Argentina, Laurence Ginnell.

This year we celebrated the 100 year anniversary of his death. Of course he was an MP previously as well. It is really important and every time the Argentinian ambassador comes to Ireland they try to build and develop those strong links. This gives us an opportunity. We have a unique inroad in those countries and it all about how we best exploit that. We are a small open economy which depends on its ability to trade internationally. Without that ability we would not have the economy we have today and we would not have the resources to invest in critical services. I fully support this.

Peter Burke (Longford-Westmeath, Fine Gael)
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I want to acknowledge Deputy Troy's submission in relation to Mergon and the importance of this strategy. I know the Deputy was part of high level business himself in connection with Enterprise Ireland in his Department. In my own constituency of Longford Westmeath it is quite striking the huge meaning the relationships with Argentina still hold to this day. Having the asado back in The Rustic Inn in Abbeyshrule again this year after Covid is so important. It is striking that we have the Argentinian ambassador coming over to meet relatives and people who still have so many ties in Argentina. That is a case in point. Ireland is very good at utilising its diaspora around the world. We have to continue to do that. Through this strategy we have to work to strengthen relationships. As I said quite clearly, we do not want others to fill that void.

Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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I also want to amplify the cultural links because it is a very important point that we have not really exploited. As I said in my initial remarks, we have not had much focus on Latin America. Our links with that part of the world are deep. I met a Ricardo Howlin, who spoke only Spanish, at a reception in Buenos Aires. My name is almost exclusively from Wexford. The few stray Howlins are all linked to Wexford. It was strange to meet an entire family who had left Wexford in the 19th century and they really want a link. Similarly, in the centre of Mexico city the column that celebrates Mexican independence and the most important people who contributed to that, features a Wexford person, William Lamport, also known as Zorro, by the way. He is regarded as one of the founding fathers of Mexico. There is now a mural to him in Wexford. They are the sort of real cultural links that we have not properly exploited that I think we should forge.

I want to see if I understand this correctly. I was interested in the observation that the Minister of State made regarding the fact that the diplomatic links we have with some of the Caribbean nations are from New York. They are not Latin American links. It seems discordant with our new view that we would have our diplomatic contacts based in New York as opposed to another Latin American country. Does the Minister of State have a view on that? Are there any thought processes going on in the Department on that?

Peter Burke (Longford-Westmeath, Fine Gael)
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That is what we were changing through the strategy in February. They have all moved now.

Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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All of them? Where are they now?

Peter Burke (Longford-Westmeath, Fine Gael)
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Mexico and Ottawa.

Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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So we are moving farther away?

Peter Burke (Longford-Westmeath, Fine Gael)
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Two direct missions have moved in to the area, Bogotá and Mexico. I will get the Deputy a note on the recent strategy.

Sharon Keogan (Independent)
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The Minister of State referred to students coming in. Is that at third level or second level?

Peter Burke (Longford-Westmeath, Fine Gael)
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Yes, third level.

Sharon Keogan (Independent)
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Only third level, so there are no opportunities for second level students boarding.

Peter Burke (Longford-Westmeath, Fine Gael)
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Not at this time.

Sharon Keogan (Independent)
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Okay, that is fine.

Colm Brophy (Dublin South West, Fine Gael)
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I thank everyone for coming in. It has been a very interesting discussion. The members raised a number of interesting points. There is no question that engagement with the Caribbean presents tremendous opportunities for Ireland as the Minister for State is well aware. Before Brexit the primary voice of many of the Caribbean nations in their dealings with the European Union was the UK. As the UK is now outside that, it now falls to us. Many of the countries are English speaking and there are huge opportunities there. I know we have tapped into this already. I had the privilege in a number of ministerial meetings of engaging directly with Caribbean counterparts about a range of issues that are available for us to develop. The climate issue is an important one to note. The work we are doing on the oceans at the moment is worth acknowledging, particularly the really strong work we are doing in helping Caribbean nations deal with the problems around ocean pollution and the effect it is having on them. This is a complementary problem to climate but also a major one. It is important to see a strengthening of the direct diplomatic channels because there is a sensitivity there. We can act in good faith as a broker between the EU and the Caribbean on a number of issues they have had where they feel that they have taken tremendous strides to meet EU requests and requirements in terms of financial regulation. That has not necessarily been reciprocated in an appropriate way by the European Union. This is probably more to do with competition that regulation.

I welcome this process. It is excellent that we are continuing the engagement. The Latin American side has been covered by a number of other colleagues but I would re-emphasise that the real potential for us lies in developing that relationship with the Caribbean area.

Peter Burke (Longford-Westmeath, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Cathaoirleach. We will take those comments on board. I know the Cathaoirleach has huge experience himself regarding that portfolio.