Richard Bruton (Dublin Bay North, Fine Gael)
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I thank the witnesses for the presentations. I am interested in the number of people in arrears and how that could be best addressed in policy terms. How successful is the exceptional needs payment in dealing with these cases? Are other interventions needed? The proposal to extend the fuel allowance to those in receipt of the working family payment seems like quite a sensible idea. They already have access to the free installation scheme, the warmer homes scheme. How many additional families would be embraced by that?

Low-interest loans could play a crucial part in the cost of retrofitting. Credit unions are well placed in the community, particularly if they are aligned to the suggestion of community energy advisers. Does that provide an avenue to those who are not covered by the warmer homes scheme?

There is an underlying difference of emphasis between energy poverty and the move to net zero. Obviously, energy poverty is greatest among those who have the worst BER. The warmer homes scheme is not predominantly aimed at deep retrofits. It is really aimed at energy poverty and improving the situation of those who are on low incomes and have bad heating systems. The witnesses seem to be unhappy with the approach the Government is taking.

It does seem there is a real effort to target, in that as the fuel scheme is a means-tested scheme it is confined to certain categories. Perhaps it excludes categories, such as the working family payment group. The SEAI schemes are targeted at people with a lower BER. Some people who get homes upgraded still get the fuel allowance. There is double paying these cases. The Government's approach is reasonably well designed. The witnesses seemed to suggest a different means-tested approach. Is it reasonable or sensible to ask for something new and completely different from what we now have, which is well established and people are familiar with, and go for a new means-tested approach with a social tariff? It seems to be quite a complex undertaking in the midst of a very intense period of crisis to try to redesign the entire system. Could there be marginal changes to make our system work better? That would seem to be preferable.