Paul Daly (Fianna Fail)
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The farm bodies are looking for it and everybody sees the need for it. I think all the witnesses have accepted it at this stage and are very much in favour of it. They, along with the Department, are well down the road, having sent out the expressions of interest. It looks like it is happening. I appreciate, and this will shorten my contribution even more, the fact they have sent out expressions of interest and have received some. I would not expect the witnesses to go into it further while it is still at that stage.

I have a couple of quick questions, one of which came up in one of the presentations by the farm organisations. When this happens, will an allowance to be made for people who have attended agricultural college or otherwise as opposed to having to achieve high points? The points are getting higher because there is a limited number of places. With the greatest of respect to our students, not everybody who has achieved high points might be the ideal candidate for veterinary medicine. However, somebody who may be from an agricultural background and who may not have achieved the points in the leaving certificate but who went to agricultural college and who may know a lot about the practical element of dealing with animals could progress. Will provision be made in whatever new courses are introduced? Thank God, it looks like it is afait accomplithat they will be introduced.

My other point relates to UCD, which has not been included this evening. I would not like the message to go out from here that anybody has anything negative to say about the service that is being provided by UCD. It is a numbers game, as opposed to a quality of service or a quality of the graduate issue. However, I presume its hands are tied with regard to expansion. Was that considered or looked at? Would it be a possibility that it could up their numbers? It has the know-how at this stage. It is world-renowned. We were lucky enough to visit Lyons Farm a couple of weeks ago where it has practical, hands-on facilities.If it is not broken, why fix it? Was that considered or is it a non-runner? Are its hands tied with regards to the expansion of numbers?

The number of students going overseas to be qualified was highlighted in almost everybody's submissions. I do not recollect whether anyone made a comparison as to what points, qualifications or criteria they needed in order to qualify for those courses they went to. Is that an issue? For the purpose of this evening's debate, if a student can get into a course in Budapest on the equivalent of 400 points, if we were to have more places here, would it be along the lines? The VCI will give the very same recognition to the person when they come home as they will to the person who has gone through UCD and who has achieved 600 points. If that comparison was made, it may give a scope to open up the qualification status.

I do not know whether I would have made a good vet and whether VCI would have certified me, but I never would have gotten those points. I would like to think, however, that I would have made a good vet, because I come from a farming background and because I have worked with animals since I was able to walk.

I do not think this is an area that should be points-oriented. However, I appreciate that in a system, especially where there are limited places, the points will have to keep going up to stay ahead of the posse. Approximately how many points will get you into one of the universities on the Continent or somewhere else? I would like the other questions I asked addressed.

I welcome the fact this is the first time I have been here when witnesses and colleagues are all singing from the same hymn sheet.