Mr. Ger Brophy:

I can be really brief. The proactive duty is important. Mr. Justice Barr established at that time that Tusla and the HSE were being proactive in following up on retrospective abuse. When it comes to a case like this, we are looking at organisational abuses. What Geoffrey Shannon's report establishes is culture is one of the features, let us say, of what we might call organisational abuse. That is important. The culture in organisations is not necessarily about their polices or procedures, but how they operate and the assumptions they make. It is the way they have always operated; it is their custom and practice. That is the piece that has been clearly identified in this report as needing to be looked at, but that is only one of the features. If we look at what was described as systemic abuse, it could be organisational or organised - namely, where two or more people were in a cohort together - or it could be something around child exploitation where there is reward involved. Again, we do not see all those features present in this report. Maybe that is all I can say at this point in time. There are some features there, but not all the features that would easily classify it into any one of these. Geoffrey Shannon's report does a really good job on pulling that together in a really understandable way.