Brian Stanley (Laois-Offaly, Sinn Fein)
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I welcome everyone to this morning's meeting. We have received apologies from Deputy Catherine Murphy.

If attending the meeting from within the committee room, members and witnesses are asked to exercise personal responsibility to protect themselves and others from the risk of contracting Covid 19. Members of the committee attending remotely must do so from within the precincts of Leinster House. This is due to the constitutional requirement that, to participate in public meetings, members must be physically present within the confines of the place where Parliament has chosen to sit.

The Comptroller and Auditor General, Mr. Seamus McCarthy, is a permanent witness to the committee. He is accompanied today by Ms Mairead Leyden, audit manager at the Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General.

This morning we will engage with officials from the Central Bank to resume our examination of the report on the Accounts of the Public Services 2020, Chapter 14 – Assessment and collection of Insurance Compensation Fund Levies; the report on the administration and movement of the Insurance Compensation Fund for the year end 31 December 2021; and the Comptroller and Auditor General section 2 report on the unauthorised release of funds from the Central Fund of the Exchequer.

We are joined from the Central Bank by Mr. Gabriel Makhlouf, Governor, Ms Sharon Donnery, Deputy Governor, financial regulation, and Mr. William Molloy, director of financial operations. We are also joined by the following officials from the Department of Finance: Mr. John Hogan, Secretary General, Ms Scline Scott, principal officer, corporate affairs, Mr. Colm O’Reardon, head of strategic economic development division, and Mr. Michael McGrath, assistant secretary, financial services division. We are also joined by the following officials from the Office of the Revenue Commissioners: Mr. Eugene Creighton, assistant secretary, large corporate division, and Ms Angela O'Gorman, Comptroller and Auditor General and committee liaison. They are all very welcome.

I remind all those in attendance to ensure their mobile phones are on silent mode or switched off. Before we start, I wish to explain some limitations to parliamentary privilege and the practice of the Houses as regards reference witnesses may make to other persons in their evidence. The evidence of witnesses physically present or those who give evidence from within the parliamentary precincts is protected, pursuant to both the Constitution and statute, by absolute privilege. As they are within the precincts of Leinster House, witnesses are protected by absolute privilege in respect of the presentation they make to the committee. This means they have an absolute defence against any defamation action for anything they say at the meeting. However, witnesses are expected not to abuse this privilege and it is my duty as Cathaoirleach to ensure it is not abused. Therefore, if their statements are potentially defamatory in relation to an identifiable person or entity, witnesses will be directed to discontinue their remarks and it is imperative they comply with any such direction.

Members are reminded of the provisions within Standing Order 218 that the committee shall refrain from enquiring into the merits of a policy or policies of the Government, or a Minister of the Government, or the merits of the objectives of such policies. Members are also reminded of the long-standing parliamentary practice that they should not comment on, criticise, or make charges against a person outside the Houses or an official either by name or in such a way as to make him or her identifiable.

Before I call the Comptroller and Auditor General, Mr. Seamus McCarthy, to make his opening statement, I want to particularly welcome Mr. Makhlouf to the meeting this morning. We were hoping he would have been here on 23 February. We had a meeting scheduled for that date and had given many weeks' notice to the Central Bank. We received a letter from Mr. Makhlouf three days before the meeting stating he was unable to attend due to a European Central Bank, ECB, meeting in Finland. I also have before me a schedule of ECB governing council and general council meetings for the year, which I am sure Mr. Makhlouf also has access to. I have the full schedule here for 2023. I express the disappointment of the committee at being notified only a few days in advance that Mr. Makhlouf could not attend our meeting. We were also disappointed there was no Deputy Governor here that day. I convey that disappointment to Mr. Makhlouf. The Committee of Public Accounts has a job to do in terms of oversight and it was extremely disappointing for me, as Chairperson of this committee, that we had to abandon that meeting halfway through due to a lack of information or of people who could answer questions on behalf of the Central Bank.

Another matter that I want to bring to Mr. Makhlouf's attention is the fact the Comptroller and Auditor General published a section 2 report on the unauthorised release of funds from the Central Fund of the Exchequer. It relates to the release of €750 million without full authorisation. On 21 December, one day before the Comptroller and Auditor General's report was due to be published, the report was leaked to a journalist in one of the newspapers. An article was published which set out that the Department of Finance took €750 million in Exchequer funds without approval. Only three bodies knew the detail of that report. One of them was the Comptroller and Auditor General's Office, which had prepared the report. The second one was the Department of Finance, in which it is accepted that full approval was not given. That has been accepted by the Department and the committee is happy enough with that. The third body was the Central Bank.

In relation to the settlement with the Central Bank and in regard to the actions taken against PwC in relation to the Insurance Compensation Fund, on 23 February, when the Central Bank attended this committee, officials were unable to give us details of the final settlement in relation to Quinn Insurance Limited and the Supreme Court case against PwC. Yesterday morning, again one day before the key event, the same newspaper and the same journalist were able to set out that PwC paid €53 million to settle the €900 million claim over Quinn Insurance Limited. From this committee's point of view, that leak obviously came from somewhere. The last day senior officials from the Central Bank were here, they were not able to answer that question. They said the information was confidential. I have not been able to find confirmation that there was a legal reason for it being confidential. Now we learn the figure was settled last June. That figure was available but it was not given to this committee. It was given to a journalist, who published another newspaper story on foot of it. Would Mr. Makhlouf like to comment on any of those matters before we start?