Mr. Jim Lawlor:

A lot of babies have been thrown out with the bathwater. Some of the stuff that was working was just thrown out because we had another set of policies or more rules without the analysis. That analysis cannot be done under UBU. It is so frustrating to think about it. When UBU was coming in, I was still in Rialto at the time and I remember having the conversations within the City of Youth Service Board, CDYSB. People were saying "If you stay around here Lawlor, there is going to be a red card for Rialto". That is how bad it has got. It is not a case of sitting down and looking at the experience any more, or taking the learning that has happened and doing the research required to hold that together. It is just a total disrespect for the work in my view. It shows a complete disrespect for the amount of effort. People do this work anyway; they do this on the sly. People do it when they go home and at all sorts of times. It is seen as of no value to anybody when it happens like that. It needs to be accepted that this research and those learnings are really important and let us do it. Let us not complicate it. We have always had to be accountable and do this. Nobody particularly likes doing it but it is part of it. I think of the times Senator Ruane and I spent up in Bluebell talking about some of the practices when she was arguing with me about some of the people who were drug dealers. In Rialto we were saying they were just drug dealers and she were saying that at the weekend they were not, they were out in Tallaght snorting coke to beat the band and doing all those sort of things. Suddenly that cross-fertilisation and that way of thinking, where people can actually learn from each other, was happening. It will continue to happen but it will happen under cover. People then feel guilty and say they should not be doing this or that. Then there are the ones who will say they will not do something because it is not part of their contract. It creates frustration for me anyway.