Ms Meaghan Carmody:

I will address that question. I thank Deputy Smith for her question. It is a key issue because we have seen economic growth run in parallel with environmental degradation for years. There have been situations of relative decoupling of environment degradation, climate emissions and impacts and economic growth but it is not happening at the speed required to stay within the limits as agreed per the Paris Agreement. Absolute decoupling is not happening. The speed of relationship between the two is slowing down but they are not separate yet. They need to separate in order for us to continue on a pathway that does not prioritise economic growth to the detriment of environmental degradation and climate impacts.

There are a number of notable speakers around the world who are speaking exactly to this question. I point out Professor Jason Hickel, who this committee might like to invite to speak. He speaks eloquently on this issue. I would also like to draw the committee’s attention to the fact the Beyond Growth 2023 Conference is happening in Brussels from 15 to 17 May. All of theses are concerned with moving beyond gross domestic product and reducing consumption and production in certain areas while growing production and consumption in other areas, for example, renewable energy, notwithstanding the effects of mineral mining that was mentioned earlier. With recessions, many people will point to these economic systems that are quite new and ask if it is, or is akin to, a recession. The point is that it is a democratically planned reduction in production and consumption as opposed to one that is caused by the market and which the burden of adjustment is placed on those that are already furthest behind - austerity. We need to be having that conversation to ensure that our goals around gross domestic product are not hindering our other goals in the SDGs.

The person who invented gross domestic product, Simon Kuznets, said it should never be used as an indication of the welfare of a state. We, unfortunately, use it as that proxy now, when it does not really tell us what we think it tells us. I am happy the Deputy raised that question because it is a conversation that needs to be had.