Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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I apologise for missing the meeting last week. It was chaotic, in more ways than one. I welcome our guests. I am reasonably up to speed on the issues concerned. We are playing our part in decarbonisation and compliance with measures to reduce emissions. The danger is that a division will arise between urban and rural on this issue on the basis that the rural dwelling is the cause of all the problems. Of course, that is not the case. If there is a problem, one of the early sufferers could be urban areas, which are the most densely populated. Any changes such as a reduction in food production would have immediate impact of a nature that we have not yet seen. As I said recently, and I am not saying that I am always right, but I predicted the housing crisis 25 years ago when nobody believed or accepted what I was saying. I now predict a food shortage in the not-too-distant future. All the signs are there to substantiate that on the basis that allegedly we have to reduce production. I am not so sure about that. I believe that much can be done scientifically with diet and huge strides have been made in that regard.

I was in a rural area the other night and a number of people raised concerns about the countries throughout Europe and further afield that do not seem to be changing their habits at all and are doing the same things they were doing to a greater extent than ten years ago. They are building coal-fired generating facilities and many other things unabated that have consequences for emissions. People are asking whether we can be sure that other countries, both in Europe and further afield, that have a contribution to make to CO2 emissions reduction and all that entails, are doing it. Are we doing more than our fair share given that we produce sufficient food in this country to feed 50 million people? That is substantial. That means we are incurring emissions for 50 million people. Of course, the question people ask is, “What is happening there?” If we reduce that level of production then it has to come from somewhere else. Where will it come from? How will it be dealt with? Will it be dealt with in a way that is open?

My last point is that they could come up with fairly accurate figures for population growth over the past 15 or 20 years, and for CO2 emissions reductions and measures taken to reduce all the burning that has taken place in various places. How much have they been reduced by? Are they being reduced proportionally or are we in this country taking it very much to heart and saying, “We have to do more”? We are allegedly one of the biggest pollutants. Whoever came up with that phrase has to answer that again. They are asking these questions and are not going to vote for politicians such as myself and others like me of this era, because they will see themselves as under threat. They will go for more radical attitudes. There will be political consequences. I am putting it out there now that we need to have a discussion on this to make sure that we can stand over everything that is happening and that we are not just taking every nudge that we get from Europe or elsewhere without having it carefully and scientifically assessed.