Charles Flanagan (Laois-Offaly, Fine Gael)
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Today we meet with the Tánaiste and Minister for Foreign Affairs, Deputy Micheál Martin, to discuss matters that have arisen at the Foreign Affairs Council and, equally as important if not more so, the priorities of the Minister and his Government for 2023.

I welcome the Tánaiste. I welcome his officials and thank them not for only the comprehensive briefing that we received but the material we receive from time to time, which is hugely important for us in the context of our work. We are grateful.

I welcome to the Public Gallery Palestinian ambassador, H.E. Dr. Jilan Wahba Abdalmajid. I also see a representative from the British Government in the Gallery and I welcome them.

The format for our meeting is the usual manner. We will hear the Tánaiste’s opening statement, followed by a question and answer session with committee members. I ask members, as always, to be concise in their questions to allow all members an opportunity to participate. Hopefully, we will have a second round.

I remind our witnesses and members of the long-standing parliamentary practice that they should not criticise or make charges against any person or entity by name or in such a way as to make them in any way identifiable or otherwise engage in speech that might be regarded as damaging to the good name of that person or entity.

Without further delay, I call on the Tánaiste to make his opening statement and wish him well.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Chairman and committee members for the invitation to brief them today. I

look forward to our exchange on foreign policy issues. I will speak on the key foreign policy priorities currently under discussion at the European Union Foreign Affairs Council, as well as share some reflections on our UN Security Council term. I will also outline some of the foreign and security policy issues and challenges that my Department will be focusing on in the months ahead.

As we mark one year since Russia’s brutal and unprovoked war on Ukraine, it is a timely moment to reflect on the international multilateral system and Ireland’s engagement with it. Russia’s ongoing war against Ukraine is undoubtedly the single greatest challenge to the rules-based international order since its foundation in the years after the Second World War.

The multilateral system, with the United Nations Charter at its heart, is the bedrock of international peace and security. Respect for the independence, sovereignty and territorial integrity of states is the universally accepted principle enshrined in the charter, which allows for peaceful global co-existence. It is the foundation of all our security.

As a small, militarily neutral country, it is no exaggeration to say that our very existence as a sovereign state relies on compliance by all states – however large and powerful – with this principle. Multilateralism is at the core of our values and interests. It is more important than ever that states like Ireland, with a long-standing and principled commitment to the United Nations, are willing to serve on the Security Council, as well as other United Nations bodies.

We had no illusions that serving on the Security Council would be easy. We knew that any progress we could make would be hard won and incremental. However, we firmly believed that it was important for Ireland to contribute to the Council, fulfilling its vital mandate as the body with primary responsibility for the maintenance of international peace and security.

As members know, Ireland took on a number of important leadership roles during our term on the Council, which concluded in December. Despite unprecedented fragmentation and political polarisation on the Council, we made an impact. Let me give some examples. First, we successfully brokered agreement in 2021 and 2022 to renew the vital resolution that allows the United Nations to deliver cross-border humanitarian assistance to north-west Syria from Türkiye. That humanitarian operation was essential in keeping four million people alive over those two years. It has also been vital in ensuring that aid has been able to reach Syrians affected by the tragic earthquake that hit the Turkish-Syrian border this month. Ireland has released €10 million for immediate humanitarian relief, as well as providing pre-positioned emergency supplies from Irish Aid, including tents, blankets and water.

A second important Irish achievement on the Security Council was the negotiation of a ground-breaking resolution that delivered a horizontal carve-out for humanitarian activities across all 15 United Nations sanctions regimes. This ensures that whenever UN sanctions are imposed to respond to gross human rights and humanitarian law abuses or to counter terrorist financing and activities, the delivery of humanitarian assistance to civilians in those countries will not be inadvertently impeded. We are also now working at European Union level to extend the provisions of that resolution to European Union sanctions regimes. Ireland has pushed strongly since the earthquake to expedite humanitarian carve-out to the EU-Syria sanctions regime and I am pleased that the main changes that Ireland proposed have now been agreed.

A third area of priority for Ireland on the Security Council was peacekeeping and peacebuilding. We secured a Security Council resolution on peacekeeping transitions, ensuring that when military peacekeeping operations end, the gains of peace are maintained through active UN engagement and support for civilian peacebuilding. I know that the committee is very supportive of Ireland’s role in UN peacekeeping operations and UN-EU-led crisis management missions. This reflects the cross-party, cross-society support for Ireland’s participation in United Nations mandated missions.

The tragic death of Private Seán Rooney and the injury of his three comrades in the appalling attack on a United Nations Interim Force in Lebanon, UNIFIL, convoy has brought home to all of us the risks that Irish men and women take when serving their country abroad in the cause of peace. I travelled to Lebanon in January and met with Lebanese and UN ministers and officials. We are continuing to engage closely with the Lebanese and UN authorities to ensure that this heinous attack is thoroughly investigated and that those who were responsible are brought to account.

A fourth area of our work on the Council that I would like to reflect on is Ukraine. This was undoubtedly the issue that dominated the second year of our term. It also remains at the top of the EU Foreign Affairs Council agenda. I spoke at the one-year commemoration of the invasion at the ceremony at the GPO last Friday. I will repeat what I said there. One year on from Russia’s brutal attack, Ireland’s and the EU's support to Ukraine is unwavering. Ukraine’s values are European Union values. Ukraine’s interests are European Union interests. Ukraine’s security is the European Union's security. On the Security Council, we used our voice to speak out against Russia’s brutal aggression against the sovereignty and territorial integrity of its neighbour; its violation of international humanitarian law through attacks on civilians and civilian infrastructure; its use of its place at the Council table to spread cynical disinformation; and to demand full accountability for possible war crimes and crimes against humanity.

With our term on the Security Council now finished, we will continue to play a leading role at EU level and internationally on this issue. Every month on the EU Foreign Affairs Council, we discuss how the EU can best contribute to ending this brutal war and continuing our multidimensional support for Ukraine. Most recently, we have imposed a tenth package of sanctions against Russia, the latest in the most extensive suite of sanctions ever implemented by the EU. We also need to ensure that Russia pays a price for its violation of the UN Charter.

We have provided additional funding of €3 million to the International Criminal Court to support its work on all the situations before the court, including Ukraine. We are supporting Ukraine’s cases against Russia at the International Court of Justice and at the European Court of Human Rights. We are working with Ukraine and other partners to establish credible and appropriate structures to deal with the crime of aggression. We must be clear-eyed about the scale of the challenge ahead. Russia will continue to wage this brutal war.

I have maintained regular contact with Ukrainian foreign minister, Dmytro Kuleba, and I have spoken to him on the phone in recent months. I have assured him that, in addition to providing humanitarian, stabilisation and non-lethal military assistance to Ukraine, we will continue to welcome Ukrainian refugees under the EU temporary protection directive and we will champion and support Ukraine on its path to EU membership.

Let me now turn to some of the other issues that we focused on in the last few months at the European Union Foreign Affairs Council. In January, EU foreign ministers met with Palestinian Prime Minister Mohammad Shtayyeh and foreign minister Dr. Riyad al-Maliki. We agreed to intensify engagement between the EU and the Palestinian Authority at a time when it is under unprecedented pressure. We discussed the deteriorating situation on the ground, Israeli settlement activity, demolitions and evictions and the Palestinian political situation. The events of the past few weeks are testament to the urgent need for movement towards dialogue between the parties.

No one is under any illusion that we are likely to move to comprehensive peace talks anytime soon but we must push, at the very least, for intensified engagement to prevent further escalation. Let me repeat here what I have said already in statements responding to events in Nablus and Jenin. Israel, as an occupying power, has an obligation under international law to protect civilians in the occupied Palestinian territory. It must adhere to international law. I will continue to urge the EU to play a more forward-leaning role in the conflict.

The situation in Afghanistan has also been high on our agenda and was most recently discussed by the Foreign Affairs Council on 20 February. There is unfortunately no indication that the Taliban is prepared to respect fundamental and universal human rights, particularly the rights of women and girls. The recent edict limiting even further the role of women in public life is catastrophic for the human rights of women and girls in Afghanistan, as well as for the economic and humanitarian situation in the country. There are unfortunately few pressure points available to us in influencing the Taliban. At the same time, we have an obligation to the millions of people facing extreme poverty in Afghanistan. Frankly speaking, there are no easy decisions when it comes to Afghanistan. At the Foreign Affairs Council, we agreed that EU humanitarian, basic needs and livelihood assistance to Afghanistan should continue, as long as it can be delivered in a non-discriminatory way, and in line with principles agreed by the international humanitarian donor community. This will be closely monitored and we will regularly review progress over the coming six-month period. I strongly advocated that we continue to prioritise investment in primary education in Afghanistan and also humanitarian life-saving measures and basic needs that the population requires, notwithstanding the very difficult terrain.

Iran has also featured on the agenda of recent meetings of the Council. The EU continues to discuss how to address human rights violations, Iran’s nuclear proliferation activities and its military support to Russia. The EU has adopted a number of sanctions against individuals and entities in Iran in recent months. We will continue to carefully calibrate our response in the months ahead.

Before I conclude, I wish to speak briefly about the agreement reached yesterday between the EU and the UK on the way forward for the protocol on Northern Ireland, the Windsor Framework. This new agreement is the result of genuine and prolonged engagement between the EU and the UK. They have listened to the concerns raised by elected representatives, citizens, and business in Northern Ireland and have responded with a package that comprehensively addresses those concerns. It is my hope that the agreement will provide the certainty and stability that Northern Ireland needs in order to move forward. The focus can now turn to getting the institutions of the Good Friday Agreement up and running, across all three strands. I appreciate that some time may be needed to consider the detail of the deal. But I know from my many engagements with the people in Northern Ireland that they wish to see an Executive formed without delay.

I urge political leaders in Northern Ireland to respond to that wish. Yesterday’s agreement provides an opportunity for us to turn a page and open up a new chapter in EU-UK relations. It is also an opportunity for an improved British-Irish partnership, which has been so vital for peace and prosperity on these islands. I would also like to put on the record here my deepest appreciation for Maroš Šefovi and his team. Over the last number of years, he has worked steadfastly to understand and address concerns that have been raised around the protocol. He has spent many hours engaging with stakeholders across this island, including Members of the Oireachtas. The agreement concluded yesterday arose in large part to his patience and tenacity and his commitment to delivering for citizens in Northern Ireland.

In closing, I would like to return to the theme of support for multilateralism. One of the most interesting discussions we had at the Council earlier this month was on climate and energy diplomacy. It is a priority for all of us to improve the EU’s outreach to partners on climate and energy issues. No issue highlights the need for effective multilateralism more than the global fight against climate change. The EU needs to lead from the front on this. We need to ensure that COP28 in Abu Dhabi later this year delivers ambitious results and we urgently need to increase climate finance beyond the level of that provided by traditional donors, and to push for reform of the multilateral development banks. I had the opportunity to also discuss some of these issues at the Munich Security Conference with US Climate Envoy John Kerry, and with the Chair of COP28, Sultan Ahmed Al Jaber.

Ireland is a founder member of a grouping of member states at the Foreign Affairs Council that are pushing for a more ambitious EU approach to climate diplomacy. I am heartened to see that support for this issue is growing across the Union. I look forward to the publication of a joint communication shortly on these issues by the European External Action Service, EEAS, and the Commission. This will be an important step in raising our ambition.

I said at the outset that multilateralism is at the core of Ireland’s values and interests. As we end our tenure on the Council, we take up another vital baton at the UN. Together with Qatar, Ireland has been chosen to co-facilitate negotiations for the political declaration of the summit on the Sustainable Development Goals, SDGs. This summit, which takes place in September, comes at the midway point between the adoption by the international community of the SDGs in 2015, which Ireland co-facilitated along with Kenya, and the date identified for their fulfilment, namely 2030. It is no secret that we are nowhere near fulfilling the global goals we set for ourselves eight years ago. September’s summit will be a crucial moment to re-energise global efforts and send a signal that we are firmly committed to getting back on track. I look forward to keeping the committee informed of our progress on this in the coming months.

Charles Flanagan (Laois-Offaly, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Minister. He mentioned yesterday's agreement, the Windsor Framework. For my own part and on behalf of the committee, I wish to acknowledge his work and his role when he was Taoiseach and prime minister of an EU member state and his unstinting commitment and dedication, with EU colleagues, towards finding a solution. It is our hope that matters can move on now to a more positive footing. I want to thank the Tánaiste for his dedication and his ever-positive engagement, as Minister for Foreign Affairs and perhaps more particularly as Taoiseach over the last number of years.

I will start with Deputy Brady and then move to Senator Craughwell and other members in that order.

John Brady (Wicklow, Sinn Fein)
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I welcome the Windsor Framework. Most parties at this stage have welcomed it. Business interests in the North and chambers of commerce have broadly welcomed it too. It has been a long time coming. It is seven years after Brexit and we are just getting this now so it has to be welcomed. Will the Minister join me in calling on the DUP to end its blockade of the Assembly in the North and seize this opportunity and get back into the Assembly and the Executive to start making politics work for the people in the North who badly need politics to work at this stage?

At the end of Ireland’s two-year period on the UN Security Council, I commend the team who represented us on the council. They did us very proud. Members of this committee had the honour of going to New York and meeting many of our people there who were working on the team under the stewardship of Geraldine Byrne Nason. She did a fantastic job, it must be said. She did us proud. The Minister touched on some of the issues that Ireland championed including humanitarian access to north western Syria. The humanitarian corridors have proved vital to getting aid in even before the earthquakes in Türkiye and Syria. Hopefully they will be extended in future after the six-month extension ends.

I know Ireland took a lead role on the conflict in the Tigray area of Ethiopia. Thankfully things have moved somewhat and there is a peace process and a ceasefire is in place. That was very difficult given the tensions around some of the major players involved in that conflict so to get the progress Ireland made with the Joint Statement at UN Security Council level was no mean feat.

I commend everyone on that. The last year on the UN Security Council was taken up with the illegal invasion of Ukraine by Russia and a lot of focus went, rightfully so, to that issue in terms of the illegal invasion, standing up for international law and the territorial integrity of Ukraine. We now need to focus on doing everything that is right for Ukraine but we also need to start building a narrative around moving towards peace and there is a role for Ireland to play as a militarily non-aligned country. Ireland needs to join with other non-aligned countries, to start that conversation, and to use our influence and the massive soft power we have. I ask the Tánaiste what engagement we have had with other countries in terms of trying to build a narrative or a space or forum for a peaceful resolution to that horrific conflict in Ukraine.

The one area where we were unfortunately not strong was on the issue of Palestine and it was a missed opportunity for us on the UN Security Council, to be more vocal in standing up right across the board and respecting international law irrespective as to where it is breached. The biggest breacher of international law of course is Israel. It has breached more UN Security Council resolutions than any other country in the world and I do not think Ireland was strong enough in that regard. Unfortunately we have now seen with the new right wing government in Israel that the situation has deteriorated even further for the Palestinians if that is possible. Since the start of this year we saw more than 65 Palestinians killed and we see settler violence at a level that I do not think anyone has ever seen and all of that is being done, aided and abetted by the Israeli occupational forces. We saw that play out in Nablus over the past number of days where more than 100 Palestinian homes and more than 45 Palestinian cars were torched and many businesses were destroyed while Israeli forces watched. This is not in isolation. Palestinians have been talking about the increased settler violence against them for a long time. We saw some attempts to broker a de-escalation of the tensions and the violence which led to the UN Security Council and the EU issuing statements on settlement expansions where more than 7,000 illegal settler units were given the go-ahead quite recently. That is more than in both 2021 and 2022 put together in the space of a number of days with more than 7,287 settler units bring given the go-ahead. The UN Security Council condemned that as did the EU. The Tánaiste might like to join those condemnations as regards that announcement. Irrespective as to the condemnations by the UN Security Council, the EU, and hopefully from the Tánaiste as well, the intention of Israel is to proceed with those expansions and we now see more than 700,000 illegal settlers in the occupied West Bank and in East Jerusalem. Even with condemnation it does not stop Israel's settlement expansion, it does not stop settler violence and it does not stop the apartheid against the Palestinian people. Tánaiste, is it now time to look at action to hold Israel to account? While the EU is condemns Israel, on the other hand there is a preferential trade agreement with one of the largest gross violators of international law and humanitarian law anywhere in the world. There is a real level of hypocrisy so it is now time for the EU and the Irish Government to take action given that condemnation simply does not work.

I have a couple of other points. In relation to Iran, I want to ask the Tánaiste about the current detention of Bernard Phelan in Iran. There are now some 40 foreign nationals being held in Iran and I think that they are being used by the Iranian authorities as part of a broader agenda. I know Mr. Phelan has joint Irish and French citizenship but what are the Tánaiste's views on that? What actions, if any, are being taken by the Irish Government with regard to his release?

Ireland has a great deal of soft power and most would agree it was instrumental in our securing a seat on the UN Security Council, as well as being seen as an honest broker and a militarily non-aligned country, critically in respect of our role in UN missions which have served Ireland well over many years and built up a huge standing for us on the international stage. On the reported review of Ireland's mission there has been some chatter that we may end our United Nations Disengagement Observer Force, UNDOF, mission to the Golan Heights. What is the nature of that review? What exactly is being looked at? Is there an intention to end any of our UN mission? The UN mission in Lebanon is also due to expire this year. Is it the intention to extend that also? Many people would be concerned that there is a move by some in government to end our neutral status. When there is talk of a review to potentially withdraw members of our Defence Forces from some of these missions and at the same time there is an agreement for Ireland to be involved in EU battle groups where 174 Irish troops will be part of one, that does raise concerns that UN peacekeeping missions are now being sacrificed to feed EU battle groups. I would like the Tánaiste to respond on that and to tell me whether he sees that now there has been a lot of chatter about having a dialogue about neutrality, it is now the time for a proper conversation? I am not afraid of a conversation on neutrality because the vast majority of Irish people are proud of and want to keep our militarily neutral status and go further in terms of being an active neutral country and having an active neutral role. Is now the time for that conversation and will the Tánaiste commit to holding a referendum to enshrine neutrality in our Constitution?

My final point is about the Nagorno-Karabakh conflict between Armenia and Azerbaijan. I met the Armenian ambassador last week to discuss the humanitarian crisis that is unfolding due to what is seen as the illegal closure of the Lachin corridor which directly impacts 120,000 Armenian people. Access to medical aid, food and basics are being denied. I welcome the fact that an EU civilian common security and defence mission will take place in Armenia. What are the Tánaiste's views on the illegal closure of the Lachin corridor, and what is being done to ensure that the illegal closure by Azerbaijan is reversed and access is fully restored?

Charles Flanagan (Laois-Offaly, Fine Gael)
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I thank Deputy Brady and I propose to the Tánaiste that in keeping with our normal practice we will take contributions from a number of members and then revert to him if that is okay.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Yes.

Charles Flanagan (Laois-Offaly, Fine Gael)
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Senator Craughwell is next.

Gerard Craughwell (Independent)
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The Minister is very welcome to the committee. I congratulate him, Prime Minister Sunak, and the European Union on the wonderful achievement yesterday. The measured responses that we have had since are vitally important at a time like this so that we stall the horses, as it were, and let us not annoy anybody at this stage. We must give everybody time and space to absorb the wonderful achievement that has been made. I congratulate the Minister, as the Chairman has, on the Minister's own work on this.

Staying with Northern Ireland for a moment, DeputyBerry and I, with others in the Oireachtas, are working with a group called MAPS, which is a military and police support group in Omagh. Since the announcement of the inquiry into the Omagh bombing an inordinate number of people have come forward looking for counselling. These are members of the security forces generally. MAPS has found itself in a situation where they are completely overwhelmed by demands for support and counselling services. This is a cross-Border issue. There are people on the southern side of the Border who are also using this service and the services of Brooke House. I do not want to put the Minister on the spot today but I wonder if some emergency funding from the shared island fund, which is a fund available to the Minister's Department, could be made available to help this worthy initiative. My own view is that while something in the line of the Omagh inquiry has to take place, there is no hierarchy in atrocities and there is no hierarchy among the things that happened in Northern Ireland. To single out Omagh has now placed a lot of people into serious distress and mental illness problems. I would appreciate it if the Minister might address that.

On the vexed issue of neutrality, I believe that Ireland is best described in international terms as a non-aligned country. The Tánaiste will be aware that 120 countries are part of the non-aligned group. This group was established in 1961. I believe that the principles underpinning non-alignment are fully consistent with Ireland and its role in the international world. Those principles are: mutual respect for each other's territories; integrity and sovereignty; mutual non-aggression; mutual non-interference in domestic affairs; equality and mutual benefit; and peaceful coexistence. The group has been in existence since 1961. Why has Ireland not signed up to the non-aligned grouping? It is ideally suited to us. My colleague has just spoken about a referendum to enshrine neutrality into our Constitution. While that may be attractive for some people it is deeply unattractive where a country's hands are tied at the outset in a constitutional situation where the country is prohibited from engaging in alignments of any sort. At CyCon 22 in Tallinn last year we discussed all things to do with cyber security. There is no border in the cyber world. To tie ourselves into a situation where we cannot align with like-minded countries to defend not just our country and its economy but also our foreign direct investment attractiveness would, to my mind, be absolute nonsense. It would be deeply worrying for the future of this country if we tie a Government's hands so it is not free to react. If the Minister feels comfortable dealing with that today I would be interested in hearing his views.

Speaking of sanctions, we have had a situation where ten aircraft owned by an Irish leasing company were sold to Russia. From media reports, I know that neither the Minister's Department, the Central Bank, or the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment were contacted about the sale of those aircraft. Will the Minister tell the committee if there has been any follow-up to establish by what right these aircraft were sold on the market? How does this fit into the sanctions regime?

On the issue of peacekeeping, Ireland has a proud record in peacekeeping. Sadly, our Defence Forces are in a very poor state at the moment. With regard to the withdrawal of troops from the Golan Heights, I believe we had no choice. Brigadier General Ger Aherne gave an example on Sunday of what is required to provide troops in each one of areas we are operating in.He said we would need to take the number that are on the ground and multiply it by three because one group is getting ready, one group is serving, and one group is recovering when they come home. There must always be that sort of number available. In my entire time in the Oireachtas, which is coming up to nine years, the first positive statement that has been made was made by the Minister, Deputy Martin, in the last few weeks in the context of housing for members of the Defence Forces. The Minister Deputy Martin, is not here to discuss defence today but it falls into our peacekeeping role. Unless we fix issues around the working time directive, the 2013 pension, and allowances, we will find ourselves in a situation where we are not able to fulfil peacekeeping missions. Right now we are in a situation whereby what was once voluntary is now becoming a detailed duty. That is very difficult especially when people are getting very short notice. A hole in the management structure has not been filled. Some 600 commissioned officer vacancies is just not acceptable. It eats into our role in peacekeeping. The Minister is proud of this role and the Chairman is extremely proud of it. I and other members of this committee are very proud of our blue berets and those who have served with European forces in the cause of peace. We may find ourselves in the not too distant future in a peacekeeping role in Europe as the Ukrainian war, I hope, draws to an end.

My final question is on the issue of arms for Ukraine. I am aware that Ireland is providing non-lethal military equipment. At the moment we did this we did away with any neutrality. The Minister has also said that we are not neutral in the case of Ukraine. Ukraine is not looking for offensive weapons from us but they are looking for defensive weapons such as weapons that can be used to shoot rockets out of the sky and weapons that can be used to take out a tank. Those are defensive weapons and are there to save human life, not to take human life away. Will the Minister go back to look at the defensive side of what weaponry we have and how that might be used to assist Ukraine and stop the slaughter of people? I will leave it at that and I thank the Chairman for the time.

Charles Flanagan (Laois-Offaly, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Senator. I remind members that the Senator has, by his own admission, strayed into matters that are really not on the agenda in terms of defence rather than foreign affairs, which is the purpose of our meeting. Notwithstanding that the Tánaiste holds both Ministries I will allow him to exercise discretion as to the breadth of replies he might offer. This is in the knowledge that the Senator himself has admitted that he has strayed beyond the agenda.

At this stage, and having regard to the numbers of questions that have been posed to the Tánaiste , it might be best in the interest of good order to revert to the Tánaiste now and then come back for a second round with Senators Ardagh and Joe O'Reilly, and others who might offer.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Deputies and Senators for their contributions. I join with Deputy Brady in welcoming the Windsor Framework and particularly the certainty it will give to business and to industry, some of which are doing quite well while others in the context of consumer goods were finding aspects of the protocol difficult. In all of the practical day-to-day issues that were raised, from goods going from Great Britain to Northern Ireland it is now free-flow and all of the barriers have been removed, essentially. This applies also in the context of parcels, pets, and medicines. A definitive and sustainable solution has been found for that. Whatever food is on the shelves in the UK is on the shelves also in Northern Ireland and whatever medicines are permissible at any given time under certain conditions are permissible under the same conditions in Northern Ireland. With state-aid provisions, it is a very comprehensive set of measures. There is also the democratic input issue, or deficit, as some have raised with us.

That is responded to in the context of the Stormont brake, which is the term being used. It is at the end of a series of mechanisms. The whole agreement is in the spirit of using mechanisms to sort out issues that might arise from time to time.

Deputy Brady asked about the Executive and the Assembly. Irrespective of the negotiations and discussions on the protocol, once an election happens, there is an obligation on every party, including the DUP, to convene the Assembly, go into parliament and form a government. I have said this consistently since the election, and I said it years ago when the Assembly was collapsed for different reasons and we did not have it for three years. I said that democracy demanded that the people's vote be respected through the formation of Assemblies and Executives.

It is fair that people be given time to examine the detail of the agreement. My understanding is that there will be up to 400 pages long. It is substantive and wide ranging and took a number of months to put together. Therefore, it is fair that people have time to read the agreement and fully understand it. Parties will consider it. I hope that, in the best interests of the people of Northern Ireland and in light of the issues that people are facing in terms of the cost of living, education, health and so on, people revisit decisions that have been taken in respect of the Assembly and the Executive and restore them.

I agree with the comments on our strong team at the Security Council. Senior people in the architecture of the UN have looked enviously on the quality of the young people working on our team. Some have been asked to serve with them. People watching our team members at close quarters saw their effectiveness and impact. When I addressed the Security Council in September 2021, I met all of our team and came away optimistic about Ireland's future. To see such a young team of committed diplomats with great conviction and knowledge of the files for which they were responsible, be it Palestine, Syria or Ethiopia, gave me cause to be optimistic for the future of this country, given that we still attract young people of calibre into our diplomatic service. I pay tribute to them and to the leadership of Ms Geraldine Byrne Nason, who is now our ambassador in Washington, for going at this with great conviction and determination. Deputy Brady outlined the outcomes in Tigray and north-west Syria. Many people on the ground and going about their daily lives probably do not appreciate it, but when we teach international relations in second and third levels and we ask our young second level students to be global citizens, which is the theme of many secondary schools today, those outcomes are the outward manifestation of the value system we inculcate among young people. We want them to be citizens of the world. People can take decisions at a UN Security Council once in their lifetime that will directly affect up to 4 million Syrians in getting basic humanitarian need. We should not be slow to affirm the good work of our young diplomats.

Regarding Ukraine, it was mentioned that it was time for Ireland to join with others in seeking peace. Ireland never wanted war. At times, I find there can be an element of equivalence. Russia started the war, and the war could end tomorrow if Russia stopped it. Prior to the war's onset, many efforts were made by EU leaders directly with Putin to prevent it. Some EU leaders were criticised, most notably President Emmanuel Macron, who visited Vladimir Putin and tried to prevent the war through dialogue and diplomacy by offering discussions on a continent-wide security architecture that would meet the needs of Russia or address whatever vulnerabilities it feared it had. The German Chancellor, Olaf Scholz, did likewise. Other EU leaders went and spoke to Putin to stop him from going to war, but he carried on regardless.

We want peace, but the challenge is that Russia has clearly been gearing up for an offensive for some time. Ukraine wants to repel that offensive and, through a counteroffensive, regain its territories. From what I can see, the situation is not a good one in terms of the war's impact on young soldiers on both sides. It is an appalling loss of life. Aspects of this war have been likened to the trenches of the First World War, particularly in how the Russians are conducting it by sending wave after wave of battalions to attack Ukrainians, getting killed in the process. It is also a strong artillery war as well as a 21st century war, with technologies like drones and so on. The destruction is terrifying.

Be under no illusions – quite a number of leaders are always watching out for opportunities to try to get a peace track going. This is not a war in which two sides engaged, though. This is an illegal invasion. It is something that no one else wanted, least of all President Zelenskyy and the Ukrainian Government, but they have to deal with its fallout.

Those who are the aggressors – Russia in this case – need to know that there is a unity of purpose and strength in those who are telling them that they have violated the UN Charter and the multilateral rules-based order and that that comes with a cost. It is gratifying that there has been such a unity of purpose among EU states, the US, the UK and other like-minded rules-based countries.

Regarding Palestine, I disagree with Deputy Brady about our position at the Security Council. I recall how, six months into our Security Council term, Secretary-General António Guterres addressed the European Council. He called me to one side and praised Ireland for its proactivity on the Palestinian question on the Security Council. Ireland is well recognised internationally for its consistency and outspokenness in condemning and calling for a cessation of settlement expansion and violence within the West Bank and Gaza. As recently as 19 December, we reiterated our position at a meeting of the Security Council that focused on the issue of Israeli settlements. On that occasion, we led a joint press statement with a number of states demanding that Israel immediately and completely cease all settlement activities in the occupied Palestinian territory, including East Jerusalem, and that it fully respect all of its legal obligations in that regard. Equally, we welcomed the presidential statement by the Security Council this month expressing opposition to all unilateral measures that impeded peace, including, inter alia, Israeli construction and expansion of settlements, the confiscation of Palestinians' lands, and the legalisation of settlement outputs, demolition of Palestinians' homes and displacement of Palestinian civilians. On 24 May, following the killing of Shireen Abu Akleh, Ireland organised an informal meeting of the Security Council on the protection of journalists. We stressed that peace and security, freedom of expression, and a free and independent press were inextricably linked. We called for an independent investigation into Shireen Abu Akleh's killing and for the perpetrators to be held to account.

We were active on the Security Council on the Palestinian question, and we continue to be active now. We welcome that discussions took place at the weekend between Israeli and Palestinian security officials, overseen by Jordan and Egypt, to try to de-escalate the current tensions at least. Commitments were made on all sides. We need swift and complete implementation of those. The Deputy is correct, in that the number of Palestinians killed in the West Bank last year was shocking. It was the highest number in a long time. That is not good enough and we are worried about it.

We have had discussions with the Palestinian authority. I believe the Palestinians should hold elections as well. This issue needs to be dealt with, notwithstanding the challenges. I understand the Palestinians' issue with East Jerusalem. Israel should facilitate the holding of such elections in Jerusalem. It is important that democratic legitimacy is affirmed by elections. The Deputy raised the issue of Iran and-----

John Brady (Wicklow, Sinn Fein)
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Does the Minister join in the condemnation of the settler violence against Palestinians in Nablus?

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Yes. We have issued a statement on the issue.

On the detention of Mr. Bernard Phelan, I have been in touch with the Iranian foreign minister and I had a long discussion with him. It is a very difficult situation for Mr. Phelan. We are continuing our contacts with the Iranian Government. He is a dual citizen as the Deputy noted. In our view, his imprisonment is wrong. To protect his health and well-being his release from prison is essential. We have asked in the strongest possible terms for his release on humanitarian grounds. We would ask the Iranian authorities to respond on that basis.

Regarding the UN missions, I signalled at the defence Estimates meeting that Ireland was joining an EU battle group and we had taken a Government decision to do so. That is not new. We have been consistent since 2000 in participating in EU battle groups. This makes sense regarding interoperability and to pursue common defence policy at European Union level, which we have been doing now for well over 30 years. That is a fact which people may not appreciate. I am taken with Senator Craughwell's point more generally. There is no connection between that decision and neutrality. Perhaps Deputy Brady was being a bit mischievous in suggesting such but there is absolutely no connection

John Brady (Wicklow, Sinn Fein)
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People hear conversations about potentially withdrawing from a UN peacekeeping mission in the Golan Heights and at the same time we are committing troops to a new battle group. That is where people are drawing the conclusion that there is a further erosion of neutrality. I tend to agree that there is an attempt to water down our neutrality to further entrench us in a militarised Europe.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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The Deputy maintains that people are saying that. However, the Deputy is the first person that I have heard say it. I do not think it is fair at all because I explained at the defence Estimates that they are operational issues.

John Brady (Wicklow, Sinn Fein)
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Perhaps that says more about the Minister being out of touch with the conversation about Ireland's neutrality.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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If the Deputy would allow me to make my point, operational decisions have to be taken regarding strength and where we deploy. The EU battle group has very significant challenges. We have been part of these groups since 2000. I do not know whether the Deputy thinks we should be part of common security and defence policy at European level or not. We have been part of German-led battle groups on an ongoing basis. In UNIFIL we are now with a Polish battalion, Pol Batt. We have to have interoperability. Isolationism does not work for peacekeeping, peace enforcement or any other missions that we may be on.

We should have a broader debate on neutrality. In my capacity as Minister for Foreign Affairs we are doing some preliminary work which I would like to take to Government in respect of discussing the evolution of Irish foreign policy into the future and the question of neutrality. However we cannot do this in the context of a binary choice as to whether we join NATO or not. That is too simplistic. That is getting into the realm of the sound bite and the campaigning mantra. I am far more interested in a more sophisticated, deep-dive as to where we will be in ten or 20 years time regarding issues of cyber-security and hybrid threats to the country. For example, how do we protect our undersea cables with other EU states? I think 75% of all cables used in the West come through the Irish exclusive economic zone.

John Brady (Wicklow, Sinn Fein)
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A good starting point would be putting ships to sea.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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It is not all about ships. We are not equipped right now to deal with that so we have to address the issue. We need to get our mindset away from conventional thinking. This is something I am stressing to the military as well. The modern threats are much different from what we think we know of military in terms of battle groups and ships, etc. We will need more brainpower on the cybersecurity front. We will need a lot more work on technical expertise and how we develop resilience for the country's key assets. We are part of the European Union. As Senator Craughwell said, we have to protect our foreign direct investment edifice within the country. We have to be open and then we have to look at the traditionally strong points. I come from the party of Frank Aiken who was the first signatory to the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty, NPT. I value the strength of Irish independent foreign policies in areas of nuclear disarmament. I spoke yesterday in Geneva at the disarmament conference and also the Human Rights Council. Ireland has a bona fide international voice because of our independent foreign policy and peacekeeping. Our voice is particularly respected regarding the NPT. I do not want to lose that but that also goes into the mix in any debate we have. This discussion should be devoid of trying to put people into corners and saying that if one does not back this mantra or sound bite then one is not sound on the national question. It used to be a good one long ago, that somebody was considered "not sound" on the national question if they did not agree with certain views. The same can be said of neutrality, that one is not sound if one does not agree with certain viewpoints. The issue is much broader than that, in my opinion. We need to look at the strengths of what we have been doing since the foundation of the State, keep those strengths and maintain our strength in diplomacy.

Earlier I mentioned investment in the international courts systems and holding warring countries and people who commit atrocities to account. We cannot do everything but we have certain roles that we can do well. Diplomacy is one of those and I agree with the Deputy on this point. When we say we want a discussion or when we review a particular UN mission it does not mean that it is something to do with neutrality. Similarly the fact that we are part of common security and defence which we have been for a long time does not mean that we are on the pathway to military alignment. It is a much broader question than whether we join NATO or not. I do not think NATO is waiting around with bated breath for Ireland to join. That is not the issue. Do we need expertise on some of these issues? The answer is yes. We have to be open to receiving such expertise.

John Brady (Wicklow, Sinn Fein)
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Will the Tánaiste furnish details to the committee regarding the review into our involvement in peacekeeping missions?

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I did not say there was a review of peacekeeping missions. If the Deputy was referring to UNDOF, we have to go to Government but I will come back to the committee. No final decisions had been made yet. When we were joining the EU battle group I did signal that there would be operational issues and challenges regarding maintaining all activities that we currently have under our remit. I will come back to the committee in due course on that.

Charles Flanagan (Laois-Offaly, Fine Gael)
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It is extremely important that we review issues that have arisen over the past 12 months and ask ourselves on what road are we proceeding. Tomorrow members of this committee go to Stockholm to the parliamentary conference on European security and defence. We will see the priorities of Sweden's Presidency, which is to strengthen the role of the European Union as a security actor not only in the neighbourhood but beyond and then the acceleration of the implementation of the strategic compass.

This ensures a greater level of EU co-operation with key partners both within the EU and indeed NATO.

To refer to what Deputy Brady said people are saying, I think any reasonably person looking at Ireland over the past 12 months, would regard the unacceptable invasion of Ukraine by Russia as a wake-up call for everybody, including Ireland. Our geographic position has stood us in good stead. The fact that NATO, of which we are not a member, continues to provide security guarantees for our neighbours in western Europe, could be interpreted as providing us with a luxury to avoid taking difficult positions and making difficult choices. Undoubtedly, as the Minister has said on numerous occasions, we share a community interest with and in the European Union. Our relationship with the US, for example, is central, not only to our well-being but also to our security, and membership of the European Union brings certain responsibilities to actively engage in the Common Security and Defence Policy, CSDP, and beyond. To come back to Senator Craughwell's question, which is really the same question as that posed by Deputy Brady, are we looking seriously at our security situation now in the context of war in Europe? Are we looking at changes for example that have taken place within EU member states? I refer particularly to Finland, Sweden and indeed to the referendum in Denmark last year which was a direct consequence of the situation in Ukraine. It has not really been the subject matter of discussion here in so far as what that means for our non-alignment and active engagement with EU colleagues and in terms of intensified and increased obligations that are going to be placed on the State in years to come. We are here to discuss the Foreign Affairs Council but looking back, every meeting of the Foreign Affairs Council over the past 12 months has been dominated primarily by the situation in Ukraine. What exactly does that mean for us in Ireland as a fully-fledged member of the European family and the European Union, in terms of our security and defence priorities?

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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The Cathaoirleach has opened up a set of questions. To a certain extent, the war in Ukraine has changed a lot of things. In many ways the Windsor agreement is not disconnected from the geopolitical issues of the day. In other words, because of the war in Ukraine, the European Union and the United Kingdom Government recognise that they need to be more in harmony and have a much deeper and constructive relationship post-Brexit than having constant rows about the protocol, because there are bigger issues around energy crisis because of Ukraine; the war itself, migration and so on. When I was Taoiseach, I said at that time we needed a debate and reflection on this because people were coming at different angles with different perspectives and unfortunately some people saw the Ukrainian war already as an opportunity. Some on the far left said NATO was using it as an opportunity to weaponise. This is incredible stuff really when you think of the fact that this is a war that nobody wanted bar Russia, which thought everybody would cave in and quietly condemn and do nothing about. That is the great miscalculation that was made. Yes, we need to reflect and debate what this means for the new order. What worries me more in addition to that is the more polarised debate that is taking place globally. I think we should see ourselves very much of as part of a rules-based country that fundamentally believes in multilateralism and, from a policy perspective or positioning, sees our diplomatic stances through that lens; key to the maintenance and protection of the multilateral based order. That stretches right across to Asia and Africa as well. If we had those principles, they are the strongest weapon to reduce the influence and the growth of what I would call those who are willfully breaching the multilateral order on an increasing basis. The polarisation that is emerging will also have implications for us too, not just around neutrality but broader issues around technologies, as we all know, and a more polarised world. I hope the world comes back from that. It is a concern I have. To a certain extent that was evident at the Munich Security Conference as well.

To add to the troubles, there are very significant issues around climate change and its impact on many countries in the global south. There is conflict arising from that and too much conflict arising around the world more generally. If we have an informed constructive discussion about this in the fullness in time, I think Ireland can chart a way forward for ourselves as a country but around a continuum of policies and issues. It is not just about military alignment itself. We have partnership for peace with NATO, for example, which we have had for 20 odd years, and the permanent structured co-operation, PESCO, project and so on. Again, there are intelligent ways to proceed here without reducing it all to just one single issue. That is the point I would make. We are not politically neutral - we never have been - and we are not morally neutral. We are not, however, members of any military alliance.

On the Az Nagorno-Karabakh conflict, again we are concerned about renewed fighting between Armenia and Azerbaijan in September of last year. Approximately 280 soldiers from both sides died. We are concerned about the obstruction of the Lachin corridor since 12 December. That complicates issues in terms of a comprehensive peace agreement. We appreciate the work of the President of the European Council, Charles Michel, on this front, in facilitating dialogue between President Aliyev and Prime Minister Pashinyan. Hopefully, with the CSDP mission as well, we can proceed. There have been some good measures and engagements at the EU political community level last year which brought both together in the one forum which was interesting. I think that political community forum will be useful in the future for dealing with issues of this kind and in getting people under one tent, so to speak, or in the one room over two days to prevent conflict in the future.

On Senator Craughwell's points, we dealt with the Windsor agreement. On that issue of maps and counselling, there are two avenues. There is the reconciliation fund we operate in the Department of Foreign Affairs and I will ask officials to engage with the Senator on that. The shared island fund announced a call recently to civil organisations. Approximately €2.5 million was made available in that call for organisations to make a submission to seek funding. It stretches right across the full spectrum of society, community support, voluntary measures and so on. That is one potential route or there is the reconciliation fund. Those are two routes for the Senator to pursue. I invite him, or the organisations on a cross-Border basis, or whatever, if they can get a proposal together with a set organisation, we will certainly take on board what he has said.

I like to think I have dealt with that neutrality issue. Have I?

Gerard Craughwell (Independent)
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The Minister has put the neutrality issue in perspective here today. These are days of worrying about land wars, tanks and guns, and whatever else. We are living in a whole new world. Some 75% of our small and medium enterprises, SMEs, have been hit by cyberattacks and that is right across the European Union. There is a whole new world out there and neutrality is too simple a word to encompass the challenges ahead for aligning on different issues. Certainly, in cyberspace, we have no choice but to align with like-minded countries against a common enemy.

Charles Flanagan (Laois-Offaly, Fine Gael)
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I will allow the Tánaiste to respond quickly but I know Senator Ardagh has to leave and I want to let her in.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I will just say quickly on the Non-Aligned Movement, NAM, all members are currently in the developing world. That has always been the focus of the membership. The only country in Europe that is currently a member is Belarus. Many of the foreign policy positions taken by the NAM over the years do not necessarily correspond to Ireland's foreign policy priorities. We work in a constructive way with the countries involved however.

If there are no further issues arising from Deputy Brady and Senator Craughwell, I am keen to give the floor to Senator Ardagh.

Catherine Ardagh (Fianna Fail)
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This challenge will not wait. First, I congratulate the Tánaiste on all the hard work on the protocol agreement. Last week we were all shaken, especially by the shooting that happened in Omagh. There was much trepidation that we might be going backwards. The community there got together and held a great demonstration over the weekend in support of not going back. It was great to see that the negotiations have been successful. We seem to see some light now. The Tánaiste put a great deal of work and his own personal time into it and built up relationships. It is great to see that.

This committee has for the past number of years been working on the issue of women and girls. We have had Dóchas and many charities into us, probably once a month, going through the plight of women and girls in war-torn areas, conflict areas or where there is drought. The wars in Ukraine, Tigray, Syria, the new regime in Afghanistan, leave women and girls in a situation where they are not allowed to go to school or university. They are excluded from education. Ultimately, it is clear that on the basis of their gender, women are suffering sexually, physically and by barriers around attending school. We are hearing much about child marriages especially, in the Horn of Africa. It seems to be that girls are taken out of school first and are made to marry older men as a mechanism to support their families. This does not happen in isolation. It happens, we get presentations about it on a monthly basis. The Tánaiste touched on it in his opening statement. Is there anything more we can do? Our role on the UN Security Council was probably envisaged to be a discussion area but the war in Ukraine took over. I would like to see that championed more. It is so broad that it is hard. The Tánaiste mentioned the importance of education. It is very important. It would be interesting to have a bigger conversation on how we can support women and girls in conflict, war-torn and drought-stricken areas of the world because they are the most vulnerable.

I also wish to mention the illegal invasion in Ukraine. Just more than a year ago the Russian ambassador sat, I think, in the seat in which the Tánaiste sits now. It was a serious meeting but it was semi-cordial. There was a good relationship between us and the ambassador at the time. It was not heated. We were not to know what was coming down the line. This was before the invasion. We were asking him questions about Russian tanks being lined up along the border, to which he responded that we were watching too many films. It was strange, when we look back on it now. The Cathaoirleach asked whether there has been a proper wake-up call for us about our security, if we have really thought about it properly. The ambassador came in and we discussed the fishermen off the west coast, how they had a bit of a hooley and sorted it all out but we really have not had a proper discussion about our national security in Ireland. We all know that people listen to our phones because we will have a chat now and I will mention a few keywords, after which I will be followed around on the Internet by advertisements selling me goods. We just do not know enough about cybersecurity. I agree with other colleagues and with the Cathaoirleach that we have to have a better discussion on our defence. Maybe it is something the committee could do. I do not believe that the general population has thought about it. My peers have not. I do not know how we would get that conversation started.

We had a great briefing from Ms Hyland. I thank her for what was amazing information. What struck me was the loss of life on both sides, the loss of young men. That does not seem to be dissipating in any way. I do not have access to Russian ministers but Ukrainian ministers on Twitter say "we are getting tanks from the West, it is a pity it did not happen sooner.". There seem to be far more artillery and tanks going in to help Ukraine to fight this illegal invasion but the loss of life on both sides is terrifying. Is that going to double this year? How much more loss of life will there be? Ms Hyland also mentioned a peace tract before the war started, trying to engage with Putin. I do not know whether he can be engaged with but people watching this at home may ask when it will end. The witnesses gave us a picture of their lives and relations at a certain level. They answered the questions I was going to ask, in the response to the Senator and the Deputy. People were really interested in that. There was great information in it. It affects our lives here in Ireland also. Ultimately, people are asking, in a flippant but also serious way, when this will end. We do not know when it will end but the more information we have, the better. This is a hopeful question. Does Ms Hyland personally think there might be any peace tracts?

Charles Flanagan (Laois-Offaly, Fine Gael)
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I will take two more questions in this group.

Joe O'Reilly (Fine Gael)
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I thank the Cathaoirleach and welcome the Tánaiste and his officials for bringing us up to speed with the priorities for the coming year, at UN level and elsewhere. I want to congratulate warmly the Tánaiste and his Department, our Government, the EU and the UK Government representatives in the Gallery, on the ground-breaking Windsor Framework. It has been welcomed by business, a wide strand of the private sector and interests in the North already. That is encouraging. It offers great potential to help the social and economic development of Northern Ireland in that it allows it continued free access to the UK and to the Single Market. It is a double and wonderful opportunity for the people of Northern Ireland. I join with the Tánaiste and many others in appealing to all strands of unionism to grasp this opportunity which also of course creates the possibility and real probability of a new administration in Northern Ireland, which is what we want and aspire to.

I agree with the condemnation of the illegal, barbaric war that continues in Ukraine. In that context, in regard to EU membership for Ukraine, Moldova and Georgia, at what stage are those applications? What progress can be achieved there? Would the Tánaiste agree that a proactive approach should be taken from a geopolitical and a humanitarian, indeed every point of view, to get those countries into the EU? There are achievements in terms of civil liberties and corruption of course but we need to be proactive and imaginative in our approach. I suggest that Montenegro is another case in point where it is a country at a crossroads in geopolitical terms. There is quite a movement that would move it towards Russia, and quite a movement that would move it towards the EU. It is towards the EU that we want to see it coming.

It behoves us all and it behoves the Tánaiste within the Council of Ministers to do everything conceivably possible to get those four states - Ukraine, Moldova, Georgia and Montenegro - into the EU as part of the enlargement that is necessary.

On the issue of sanctions, I know new sanctions have been imposed. Obviously, we want sanctions that, if at all possible, do not harm the ordinary innocent, unfortunate and wonderful people of Russia. We have all come across them, whether they are living in Ireland or in Russia. They are great human beings. They should be the least of our target. The real thing is to get at the oligarchs and the power points and the people around Putin. I am interested in the Tánaiste's view as to how we are doing with that targeting. Could more be done to get at the oligarchs rather than the ordinary people?

There is a clear deterioration of the situation in the occupied territories. There are demolitions, evictions, injuries and deaths. It is a complete breach of international law. What further steps does the Tánaiste think can be taken by the institutions we are part of at the EU and UN level etc.? Is there any more we can do to apply pressure? In a similar tone to the previous speaker asking about peace in Ukraine, does the Tánaiste see any rays of hope in terms of achieving settlement in the Palestinian-Israeli situation? It is extraordinarily bleak and recent weeks have been beyond depressing.

What can be done to get the Muslim majority countries around Afghanistan and the Organisation of Islamic Cooperation to put pressure on Afghanistan? How could the Tánaiste, within the UN and the various bodies, get those people to pressurise Afghanistan more to move? The Tánaiste said we are limited in what we can do in terms of sanctions, but could we put more pressure on Afghanistan to create a different situation for women, in particular, in the area of education? I know we cannot really tie it to food and aid because people cannot be left to starve. I would be interested if the Tánaiste would elaborate on the issue and comment on the situation of women in Afghanistan in the area of education. I will leave it at that. I think the situation in Afghanistan is an abomination internationally. It is a very complex and difficult one.

Diarmuid Wilson (Fianna Fail)
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Like other colleagues, I very much welcome the Windsor Framework and pay tribute to the Tánaiste and his officials and to his work as Taoiseach in that regard. I also pay tribute to the former Minister for Foreign Affairs, Deputy Coveney, for his efforts over recent years, and indeed those of the current Taoiseach's officials and all other parties concerned. I agree with the Tánaiste. I hope it will lead to continuity, stability and improved British-Irish relationships, which have deteriorated over recent years, especially since Brexit. Like all colleagues, I look forward to the assembly getting back up and running as soon as possible, but I agree with Senator Craughwell's point that time should be given to people to look at this agreement in detail. We have been waiting since May of last year for the assembly to get back up and running. If it takes an extra few weeks for that to happen, that time and space should be given, particularly to the unionist community. I also pay tribute to the British Prime Minister for the efforts he put in to achieving this agreement. We all know it has not been easy for him.

To agree with other colleagues, Deputy Brady, the Cathaoirleach and I had the great privilege of being in New York in May of last year to attend the meeting of the UN Security Council. The Minister of State, Deputy Brophy, was presenting there. It was great for us to experience the work the then Ambassador to the UN, H.E. Geraldine Byrne Nason, and her officials and colleagues were putting in at the Security Council. We were all very honoured to see what they were doing and the work they were carrying out on our behalf. Indeed, I wish H.E. Byrne Nason well in her new appointment as the Ambassador of Ireland to the United States. The current Ambassador to the UN, H.E. Fergal Mythen, is doing an excellent job with his officials, as the Cathaoirleach of the Seanad, other colleagues and I witnessed recently. We should be very proud of our officials all over the world, but in particular at the UN. We have witnessed their work first-hand. The ambassador, H.E. Mythen, has been heavily involved in the peace process over many years. I pay tribute to him on this occasion of the Windsor Framework agreement being reached.

Senator O'Reilly quite rightly has raised the issue of the EU membership applications of Ukraine, the Republic of Moldova and Georgia. I note that in June 2022, the European Council said it recognised the European perspective of Ukraine, Moldova and Georgia. It stated quite clearly that the future of these countries and their citizens lies within the EU. Like Senator O'Reilly, I would be grateful if we could get an update on those applications.

I note an investigation into the four leaks from the Nord Stream 1 and 2 pipelines is still ongoing. What information can the Tánaiste give us on that? I appreciate he may not be able to give us all of the facts, but what facts can he give us about that attack?

Sorca Clarke (Longford-Westmeath, Sinn Fein)
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I thank the Tánaiste for coming in today. I will be brief. I have four specific questions and I do not intend to go over ground covered by others. My first question goes back to comments the Tánaiste made about Palestine in response to previous questioners. He mentioned consistency, outspokenness, the ending of violence, the end of settler expansions, press statements, legal obligations and the protection of journalists. They are all very worthy in their own regard. What does accountability for the Israeli regime look like, in the Tánaiste's mind? While we may have seen the brutality played out again on our television screens this week, we cannot lose sight that this is the reality of the lived experience of Palestinian people, day in and day out. In the Tánaiste's mind, what does accountability for those actions look like?

The EU Council conclusions on digital diplomacy adopted in July 2022 focused on the geopolitical situation in Europe from Russia's hugely destructive and destabilising use of digital technologies in its illegal invasion of Ukraine. What other areas did the Foreign Affairs Council examine in terms of the misuse of digital technologies? This is not an action that is limited to invasions, conflict or war. It is something that is the reality of life day to day because of the quantity of technology we use daily.

My third question relates to the conclusions on human rights from the meeting of 20 February 2023. Will the Tánaiste provide the committee with an update on what differences came out of those conclusions? Was there any significant movement or change of focus on the basis on those conclusions?

I want to go back to the interaction between the-----

Sorca Clarke (Longford-Westmeath, Sinn Fein)
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I am referring to the conclusions on human rights adopted at the meeting of 20 February 2023, where member states were asked to keep human rights high on the agenda when interacting with third countries.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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There was a meeting of the Human Rights Council yesterday. I think the Deputy means the meeting of the Foreign Affairs Council.

Sorca Clarke (Longford-Westmeath, Sinn Fein)
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Yes, but please also include the meeting from yesterday. My final question is on the interaction between sustainable development goal, SDG, No. 5 from the UN and the EU Foreign Affairs Council, specifically around gender development. I want to hear about the role this may play in terms of Foreign Affairs Council meetings. The most recent statistics show there are 104.6 women for every 100 men in the EU, so women make up more than 50% of the population. I am not sure how anyone can get 0.6 of a woman, but that is the statistic.

We have focused heavily on this matter over recent years and specifically following Covid. We have seen not only the impact Covid has had on gender equality in this country but its wider impact and the undoing of all of the gains that had been made in some areas. We cannot and should not, and I do not believe the Tánaiste would want to, stand over a situation where hard-won equality gains are allowed to slide backwards. Those gains were very difficult to achieve the first time. That difficulty will be multiplied if we have to do that work all over again to get back to a starting point which existed before Covid.

The gender pay gap is still very real in many areas. We see restricted access to employment and promotional opportunities in employment and education. Representation for women is becoming increasingly difficult in many areas.

Gender equality is important but it has not been mentioned in any of the briefings. Women make up more than half of the population in the EU. I ask the Tánaiste, in this role he has, what level of priority the EU Foreign Affairs Council places on gender inequality.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I will start by responding to Senator Ardagh. She mentioned the terrible attack on Detective Chief Inspector John Caldwell in Omagh. As I have said in the Dáil, it was a shocking and brutal attack on a man who has given so much in his capacity as a PSNI detective but also as a citizen of Northern Ireland who coached an underage team. He gave the very best of himself to society, and for him to be so savagely attacked in a cowardly way, and in front of young people, shocked everybody.

The attack underlines and underpins the necessity of taking the narrative of the gun out of Irish politics once and for all. It is plausible that the people who carried out the attack were hardly born 25 years ago when we signed the Good Friday Agreement, yet they seem to have this narrative due to whatever warped views they have of the world or how the island should be constructed, and therefore they believe they can shoot and attempt to kill people at will. The degree to which violence is glorified or there is triumphalism is an issue that needs to be discussed on another day. We need to be careful to take out that narrative for younger generations coming up. The attack was shocking.

Senator Ardagh commented about the plight of women and girls in many areas around the world and war-torn areas, and Deputy Clarke raised this issue as well. Ireland has been one of the countries to the fore in highlighting the gender issue, and gender in conflict in particular. The issue was a key theme of Ireland's two years on the Security Council. We were the first country in a long time at the Security Council to bring civilian actors to the council to present to it about the role of women in peace processes in conflict situations and the experience of women in conflict areas. In the first year of our attendance at the UN General Assembly meeting, we, along with the European Union, participated in the joint forum on women in conflict, and I pay tribute to our leadership on that occasion, but also asked women who were senior players in conflict, such as in Colombia and Afghanistan, to come before the council. That was a novel and innovative approach taken by the Irish team and decided upon by Ireland.

Senator Ardagh said she felt the war in Ukraine dominated our period on the Security Council but we did not allow that to happen. We had a thematic approach to our role and one of the key themes was gender and the protection of women and girls. I agree with the Senator that, across the world, gender equality is a big issue for us. We have seen a very significant manifestation of the deprivation of basic human rights in respect of women and girls. Most recently, at the Foreign Affairs Council meeting, we discussed the situation in Afghanistan with Amina Mohammed, who is the Deputy Secretary General of the United Nations. As I said earlier, that brought home the challenges we face. What is happening to women and girls in Afghanistan is quite simply appalling and shocking. They have been abandoned in many respects. The Taliban is depriving and prohibiting women and girls from participating in the most basic daily activities of life. More worrying, the Taliban has now placed impositions on the participation by women and girls in NGOs, for example, which distribute humanitarian aid. For me, it is not a dilemma because I am very clear headed that we have to get in there and continue to support women and girls and people in Afghanistan on a humanitarian and basic needs basis, notwithstanding the policies of the Taliban and their attitudes to women and girls.

Ms Amina Mohammed made a very powerful presentation. Not all member states share the same view. There are different perspectives on the degree of supports we give and balancing that against sanctioning the regime for its behaviour. It is a very challenging line. I was struck by the view Ms Mohammed expressed that we should continue to invest in primary education. There are areas where we can still carry out targeted resources for women and girls in Afghanistan. One area is primary education because it will help to protect against further radicalisation in the future and give people at least the possibility, opportunity and curiosity that education brings with it. That is crucial. We also learned there can be different realities on the ground in different provinces in Afghanistan, so we should not lose hope and I pay tribute to the UN. It is one of the brighter sparks of the meetings I have seen so far. I would have entered the meeting almost with a sense of hopelessness in terms of what can we do in Afghanistan, but I came out of the meeting feeling there is a lot to get stuck into. Regarding the leadership of the UN and other organisations in Afghanistan, such as the World Food Programme, where an Irishwoman is very involved, we need to continue to support those kinds of endeavours in respect of women and girls.

To Deputy Clarke, securing gender equality is a key theme of everything Ireland does in international forums and we have been particularly strong in that regard. We actively promote gender equality in all of the multilateral forums in which we are involved, through debates, resolutions and statements, including at the United Nations Human Rights Council, which I did yesterday, the Commission on the Status of Women, and the third committee of the UN General Assembly. We especially promote sexual reproductive health rights in multilateral forums. That has been a strong position for Ireland. We provide core funding to the UNESCO-UNAIDS joint programme, which is called Our Rights, Our Lives, Our Future. The programme targets 31 countries in sub-Saharan Africa with support for quality, comprehensive sexuality education.

We also champion work on gender equality in multilateral forums outside of the United Nations. For example, our Presidency of the Committee of Ministers of the Council of Europe in 2022 included a focus on countering domestic, sexual and gender-based violence. A ministerial conference was held on the subject in 2022, which culminated in 38 member states signing a new Dublin Declaration committing to tackling substantively violence against women and girls across the Continent.

Rest assured that is a key thematic approach from Ireland in almost all forums we are part of. We will be involved in this year's meeting of the UN Commission on the Status of Women, which will take place from 6 to 17 March under the theme of innovation and technological change in education in the digital age for achieving gender equality and the empowerment of women and girls. The Minister for Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth, Deputy Roderic O'Gorman, will lead Ireland's delegation. Ireland is a core funder of UNFPA, which is the United Nations sexual and reproductive health agency. Ireland has a very strong agenda on these issues.

To address Senator Ardagh's point, I do not detect any peace track at the moment. Unfortunately, we do not see any light on the horizon for the cessation of the war in Ukraine. It is a very worrying situation because of the scale and level of violence.

The European Commission remains impressed by the capacity of the Ukrainian Government to respond to the documentation it receives from the Commission in respect of its application to join. The process is at an early stage by any yardstick, but I think it is fair to say the Ukrainian application is making the strongest progress.

We discussed the situation pertaining to Moldova again recently. It is in a very vulnerable situation. The Moldovan foreign minister has retained his position and we had him back in at the last meeting of the Foreign Affairs Council. He gave an upbeat assessment of the situation but also gave a sense of the huge pressures they are under because of the proximity of Russian pressures and forces. This underlines the need for us to be strong in providing additional supports to Moldova, in particular.

I would add that Georgia has a bit more work to do. There is a need for more reforms within Georgia in respect of the European perspective.

Diarmuid Wilson (Fianna Fail)
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It is important to remember that one third of Georgia is occupied by Russia as well. That should not be forgotten.

Charles Flanagan (Laois-Offaly, Fine Gael)
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We will address that at a special meeting, Senator Wilson.

Diarmuid Wilson (Fianna Fail)
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It is important to note that Moldova is vulnerable but Georgia is occupied.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I do not think a third of the country is occupied, is it? South Ossetia and Abkhazia are the two areas. Notwithstanding that, there is a sense that more reforms are needed within Georgia. We want Georgia to be a candidate country but I just have to call it as it is at times and give the EU position on the matter.

On sanctions generally, we target the elites. We tend to run the sanctions in a way that is targeting the oligarchs and the banks, etc., and trying to protect people as much as we can.

On the Palestinian-Israeli situation, I do not see much hope at the moment of any comprehensive peace process. In my view, everything Israel is doing runs counter to the two-state solution. It is difficult to comprehend how ultimately it can be in the best security interests of Israel to have these ongoing violent tensions, to put it mildly, between itself and people within the West Bank and Gaza. The immediate solution for me seems to be good, harmonious relationships to allow the development of a strong Palestinian authority and a Palestinian state. We support a two-state solution but everything happening at the moment runs counter to a two-state solution. That is the reality. We are working with like-minded countries on this issue to try to move Europe. However, Europe is divided. There is no point in saying that it is not. There are different perspectives across the European Union on the issue.

I appreciate the Senators' comments in respect of the Windsor agreement. Senator Wilson made the point about people being entitled to time. Many legitimate issues were raised regarding the operation of the protocol. It needs to be said that parties across the political spectrum raised legitimate questions. I believe they have been comprehensively responded to. It is a very comprehensive agreement with a lot of detail in it. All parties will want to examine the detail of it, but it is a welcome common agreement. I have been consistent in my view that in parallel with this, the institutions should be restored.

On the Nord Stream attack, the investigations by Danish and Swedish authorities into the four leaks of the Nord Stream 1 and 2 pipelines are still ongoing, with co-operation from Germany. Early indications from both investigations suggest the damage to pipelines was deliberate, resulting from undersea detonations. Up to now, there has been no attribution to any actors. We support the efforts made to get to the bottom of this.

Regarding Deputy Clarke's point on digital security, there is recognition across the European Union, including in Ireland, that foreign information manipulation and interference, often labelled as disinformation, is a growing political and security challenge. We are back to what Senator Craughwell said earlier about different threats. The Russian invasion of Ukraine has been accompanied by highly sophisticated targeted disinformation campaigns. There was a presentation by Google at the Munich conference which was fascinating because it showed the increase in cyberattacks coinciding with the invasion of Ukraine. Many of these were against Ukraine, but there were others against many NATO countries. This is a terrain of the future, so to speak, where we have to become more resilient. Ireland is growing its cybersecurity strength with the National Cybersecurity Centre. Our recent investigation into the health service cyberattack was commended by many other countries and was helpful to them in pursuing those who carried out the attack. The European Union and the member states are taking strong action in response to the threat. We supported the Council conclusions on foreign information manipulation and interference at the Foreign Affairs Council last July. These conclusions set out a clear roadmap to enhance the European Union's ability to defend against and mitigate the harmful effects of hybrid threats and disinformation. A hybrid toolbox was revealed by EU member states last year and work is ongoing on a new information manipulation and interference toolbox which will be completed under the Swedish Presidency. That is complementary to a number of other measures taken at EU level, including the digital service agreement, which will be implemented by the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment. There will also be a strengthened code of practice on disinformation and the establishment of European digital media observatories across the European Union, including the DCU Institute for Future Media Democracy and Society.

We are taking a range of additional measures domestically and we want to secure more expertise from those who have it. The only way we can really deal with this is by collaborating with other member states and like-minded states, and being alive to the reality that this is part of our daily existence right now. Munster Technological University, MTU, was attacked two weeks ago and the threat is high. We have to develop resilience in respect of this. In my capacity as chair of the Government task force on emergency planning, I know that this is an area we keep under constant review. Having business-as-usual continuity in the face of such attacks is something we continue to work on.

Sorca Clarke (Longford-Westmeath, Sinn Fein)
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I appreciate and understand the Tánaiste's response to the issue of cyberattacks. However, that cannot be at the expense of the issue of purposeful disinformation. A recent incident in Oxford resulted in a very uncomfortable and unwarranted situation because of the level of disinformation that had been put into the public domain pertaining to an urban planning initiative. Cyberattacks such as the one at MTU get a good deal of media attention. While disinformation may be much less focused on in the media, it is much more subversive. When it is put out there, it is very hard to pull back from. It is very hard to counter because of the very nature of it. It requires as much attention as the cyberattacks do. They go hand in hand, but the impact of each of them can be very different.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Disinformation is getting as much attention as cyberattacks. When the war broke out in Ukraine, the big clarion call across EU member states was disinformation. People knew Russia would be sponsoring a whole range of disinformation attacks in terms of the war itself and the broader picture and, if you like, the campaign to persuade the global south as to who is right and who is wrong in respect of the Russian invasion of Ukraine. It is ongoing; the Deputy is correct. It is as important, and it is being taken as seriously by the EU authorities and member states working together on this. We have to do so, too, domestically. Our own legislation that we recently brought through the Houses in respect of the electoral commission in terms of the potential of disinformation to affect our own elections, for example, reflects that. There were assertions in respect of the Brexit vote. There are, therefore, actors everywhere.

I appreciate Senator Wilson’s tribute to our team, which I 100% endorse and to which I spoke earlier. Deputy Clarke commented on Palestine. With regard to the Palestinian situation, Ireland has genuinely been very strong on the issue. We are probably one of the more consistent countries within the European Union in terms of our position, not just in respect of a two-State solution but in terms of supports via the United Nations Relief and Works Agency, UNRWA, and those we give to human rights organisations on the ground in Palestine. We raise this consistently at international fora and work with like-minded EU states to see whether we can strengthen the relationship between the Palestinian authority and the European Union. This is a track we are going on now to see whether we can ultimately lead to proper sustained agreement between the European Union and the Palestinian authority. At this stage, it is not yet a full association agreement but an engagement that would lead to something at that level and of that quality. There is much work to be done here. Really, it is about how we deploy the options we have to try to continue to create a profile there and also stay relevant on this issue internationally.

Sorca Clarke (Longford-Westmeath, Sinn Fein)
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And on the accountability issue.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Yes. Ireland is again to the fore on accountability questions. Accountability must be before international courts and international fora that investigate any atrocities for war crimes that are committed. That is easier said than done, but we have been consistent supporters of international organisations that endeavour to bring people to account for unacceptable war crimes, no matter where they are committed. Our focus right now, however, is on whether we can restore the situation to where a two-State solution is still a viable proposition and continue to support the basic needs of the Palestinian people through their authority. The situation is very challenging at the moment and in my view could become perilous if the escalation does not happen. The need to underpin the credibility and stability of the Palestinian authority has never been greater. There are obligations on Israel to behave properly in respect of maintaining peace and avoiding unnecessary attacks, and settlement expansion and the legitimisation of outposts and so forth. All of that is provocative.

Sorca Clarke (Longford-Westmeath, Sinn Fein)
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According to the Minister’s opening statement, we are currently providing €3 million to the International Criminal Court to support its work in relation to Ukraine specifically. In the Minister’s opinion, should Ireland be open to providing additional funding to that entity if it were the case that Palestine and Israel were to become involved in that same forum?

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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We fund across the board. Obviously, these agencies like the International Criminal Court need additional resources from time to time. We help, along with other states, to contribute to that. I have spoken to representatives from the European Court of Human Rights. We had a general meeting of the Council on this when I visited during our Presidency last year. For a court to adjudicate, it has to come from the ground up. The case must be built properly and professionally. If we start pre-empting the outcome of cases before they even start, that is problematic. They made this point to us in respect of Ukraine, for example. They said that merely declaring something does not necessarily mean they are going to declare it as such, so they want due process.

We are strong in terms of international accountability, however. We will continue to support international courts such as the International Criminal Court and European Court of Human Rights. We provide a variety of supports to underpin them, particularly in budget terms. In terms of UN agencies, and this is not quite specifically on accountability but in terms of refugees and migration, we are one of the stronger donors of un-earmarked funding, which is well-received by these international organisations and helps them to really function on a continuing basis.

Sorca Clarke (Longford-Westmeath, Sinn Fein)
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It is my understanding that the Israeli regime said it will not recognise the role of the ICC around complaints before it regarding its actions in Palestine. What is the Minister’s opinion on that?

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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That is no surprise-----

Charles Flanagan (Laois-Offaly, Fine Gael)
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The Minister might give a brief response. I am conscious of the fact that some people have not spoken yet.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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There is no surprise in respect of Israel and its general view. I have experience of very learned international judicial figures having produced reports in the past, and the degree to which they were personally undermined subsequently was quite shocking. That is going back over a decade. The International Criminal Court is investigating the situation in Palestine, as well as Ukraine and other situations, and will continue to do that.

Irrespective of whether one country does or not, the world takes seriously the outcome of respected bodies like the International Criminal Court. Notwithstanding what it says, Israel is very concerned about how it is perceived on international fora and works very hard to get its point of view across, as we know.

Charles Flanagan (Laois-Offaly, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Minister. I am conscious of the fact that we have not heard from Deputy Berry and Senator Ó Donnghaile, and there is a brief supplementary question from Senator Wilson. I call Deputy Berry.

Cathal Berry (Kildare South, Independent)
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I thank the Minister and his team for appearing before the committee. I have three very brief points to make, the first of which is to welcome the proposal, at least, to send Irish troops as part of the European military assistance mission to Poland and Germany to train Ukrainians in medical training and demining. Not many people know, but University College Dublin, UCD, actually has people out there at the moment who have been providing medical training to the Ukrainian armed forces.

Charles Flanagan (Laois-Offaly, Fine Gael)
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That is at UCD.

Cathal Berry (Kildare South, Independent)
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Yes, under Professor Gerard Bury. Remote training and in-person training has been taking place for the last number of months out there. The Irish military involvement will, therefore, be able to complement that well.

The second point is to welcome the €77 million Ireland has pledged as part of the European Peace Facility. Obviously, a lot of it has not been drawn down yet because it is pledged up to 2027. This is kind of a technical question regarding page 4 of the briefing note that was circulated. The Minister and his team may not have the answer to hand, but there is a comment approximately one third of the way down the page that this commitment would increase by an additional €45 million. Therefore, we have the €77 million already pledged and an additional €45 million. What jumps out at me is that the costs will be shared between the Department of Foreign Affairs and Department of Defence. The point I wish to make is that every euro in the defence budget is so important. If there were to be money routed through the Department of Defence, it would need to be new money.

My final point is with regard to-----

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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The Deputy should join the bilateral talks on the Estimates and statements.

Cathal Berry (Kildare South, Independent)
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The last point is with regard to the earthquake in Türkiye and Syria. Of 27 EU countries, 21 of them deployed small rescue and medical teams in-theatre. Ireland was one of the six countries that did not. Many teams even came from beyond the European Union. A team even went from Ukraine. Should we consider having small search-and-rescue and medical stand-by teams of five, six or ten people? Other countries seem to be well capable of doing it. We have the organisations. We have the Civil Defence and Reserve Defence Force. Probably more importantly, we have the rapid response corps from the Department of Foreign Affairs, which has been very effective over the last decade or so. It is mandated to deploy and intervene post-crisis. It sends small teams in twos and threes and works with NGOs on the ground.

The question is whether we should consider having slightly larger teams on standby embedded in that panel for the rapid response corps, so if there is a tsunami, an earthquake or a flying disaster, we can put people on the ground. I appreciate we gave €10 million and we deployed pre-positioned stores from Brindisi and the Middle East. However, the ultimate expression of solidarity is actually boots on the ground and it is something we should consider. It would certainly help with the recruitment for the rapid response corps, Civil Defence and Reserve Defence Force if the international component was included. Those are my three points.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Come on. I have used different language for the whole day.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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You are forever partisan and politicising the Palestine issue. “Who is better than the next person on Palestine?” seems to be the competition and it needs to stop.

Charles Flanagan (Laois-Offaly, Fine Gael)
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I call Senator Wilson for a brief supplementary before we move to wrapping up.

Diarmuid Wilson (Fianna Fail)
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My point relates to the candidacy of Georgia for EU membership. To clarify, it is not a third of the country that is occupied, but 23%. However, even if it is only 1%, it is still being occupied by Russia and that should not be forgotten about. In 2008, when it was occupied, if the European Union and other countries had taken a different attitude, Ukraine might not be in the difficulty it is in now.

The Minister has met the Georgian Foreign Minister. I know from the Georgian ambassador, and as convener of the friendship group here, that the Georgians are working very hard to fulfil the obligations that have been put upon them by the European Union for candidacy. I ask the Minister to raise that with his colleagues. I think they should be given time to fulfil the request of them, but it should not take away from the fact that 23% of the country is occupied by Russia. The three countries referred to today by Senator O'Reilly and I should be given equal treatment, and I do not believe Georgia is getting that at the moment.

Charles Flanagan (Laois-Offaly, Fine Gael)
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We move back to the Tánaiste on those questions. I join with Senator Wilson in his support for the situation in Georgia. It is an issue that has been raised at this committee on a number of occasions, in particular by Senators O'Reilly and Wilson. We are most concerned at the deteriorating health condition of former President Saakashvili, which is a worry. We hope that the Tánaiste, with his EU colleagues, will ensure a resolution to this issue which, should anything happen the former President in terms of his health, would undoubtedly escalate tensions in the area. It is an issue of concern to our committee. I know Senator O’Reilly has continued to raise this issue at the Council of Europe also.

Unless there are other issues, I invite the Tánaiste to make his closing remarks and to deal with the questions of Senators Ó Donnghaile and Wilson and Deputy Berry.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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On Deputy Berry’s points on the support we are giving through the training of Ukrainian soldiers in respect of key areas like de-mining, combat medical aid and so on, which, again, people have endeavoured to portray in a wrong way, I think it is the very least we can do for a nation that has come under the most appalling attacks, the destruction of civilian populations, the targeting of civilians and the terrorising of women and children.

I pay tribute to the UCD team. That whole area of helping people to deal with first-aid and first responders is crucial. Civilians are now being taught and trained to deal with these situations because many people have died from loss of blood and the inability to get a faster first response. I think it is critical. I do not understand why people criticise us for doing this, but they do. We live in a democracy and people have different views.

On de-mining, we had a very sobering presentation when we met with the head of the International Committee of the Red Cross, ICRC, yesterday, where we renewed a memorandum of understanding. Of course, it works on a completely neutral basis in terms of prisoner exchanges in war situations. The point was made to me that it can take 20 to 30 years to de-mine a war-torn country. As to the idea that we would not go in to help to de-mine or offer whatever expertise we have, we should make a contribution to that. That also applies to unexploded ordnance, IEDs or cluster munitions that can lie around and can amputate limbs of civilians and children long after an attack has stopped. We have been to the fore as a country in regard to the cluster munitions convention that we managed to convene over ten years ago in Croke Park, where we got a fantastic response, and over 130 countries have now signed up to that. Most recently, with the conference on explosions in populated areas, again, we have got huge traction.

To me, it is a follow-through on our international position that we were talking about earlier in terms of the areas where we have a contribution to make. We are not a military power of any consequence, and we know that, but I think we have something to offer in particular niche areas and to do it well. That struck me yesterday. The ICRC took us through three areas where there was a war some 30 years ago, and they are still de-mining. The point is that there are a huge issues on the ground in Ukraine in respect of unexploded mines and so on.

On funding, it is an exceptional funding measure through the European mechanism, the European Peace Facility.

Of the €77 million committed so far by Ireland, approximately €9.9 million was contributed to Ukraine from the EPF by the end of 2022. In 2023, approximately €6.8 million will be required in respect of payments to the European Peace Facility. We manage this over a period of time, but again, we can make the call. I do not see any impact on the core defence budgets.

The subject of rescue teams was raised at a previous meeting. I raised it in my capacity as chair of the emergency planning team, and so on. It is not as simple as getting a bunch of people together, getting some equipment and going out and doing the rescue. We need to build up capacity domestically. Again, it comes back to our geographic positioning. It would take a lot of logistical work to get the equipment and so on. It is not just the team; it is the equipment, which we do not have at the moment. We have been praised internationally because of the pre-positioning of stocks in Dubai and Brindisi that enabled us to do the largest ever airlift to a crisis situation, which we did more than two weeks ago. We also contribute to the United Nations Central Emergency Response Fund, CERF, so that it has the money ready to go. We contribute significantly to that, and are one of the bigger donors to that on an ongoing annual basis through the Irish Aid programme. Those are the strengths of our contribution.

I raised this issue, and I expect some follow-through. I have asked for some follow-through, not least in terms of our own indigenous capacity. The Rapid Response Corps comprises different disciplines that come together. In fact, I was in South Ossetia at the time of the invasion; I went down there. I recall two Irish rapid responders volunteered to go down to mind a border. If there was anything about the futility of that invasion, it was a freezing, most rural hinterland of South Ossetia that one could imagine. I could see the quizzical look on the Russian soldiers as to what they were doing there. They were as nonplussed as anybody as to what this was all about, in terms of the particular location. I do not mean the area any disrespect, but it is very rural, and you wonder about the futility of these kinds of operations and wars. It is an issue worth pursuing, but there is a lot more in it. I am struck that on the Syrian side of that earthquake disaster, they did not get the heavy equipment or rescue teams in as quickly as the Türkiye side did. That is a concern, and there are ongoing issues there around humanitarian inputs. Ireland has created a carve-out in terms of sanctions through its work on the UN Security Council, and also our work on the humanitarian corridor. That is an issue of going concern.

I concur with Senator Ó Donnghaile about the shocking gun attack on Detective Chief Inspector Caldwell, and the Windsor agreement, in terms of its impact. Again, the fundamental benefit for Northern Ireland is access to the Single Market, as well as the UK market simultaneously. That will create opportunities for investment inwards, and exports by SMEs and indigenous Northern Ireland companies.

Senator Ó Donnghaile's comments distorted my broader comments earlier before he arrived, in respect of Palestine. I have had a consistent view on Palestine for a long time. It is not favoured by the Israeli Government or successive Israeli administrations, but I do not believe I have to get into a competition as to who is stronger on Palestine. I do not feel I have to.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Senator Ó Donnghaile also made comments about what I said. It is a trend, and a pattern. It is not just Senator Ó Donnghaile.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I am giving Senator Ó Donnghaile my answer. He might not like my answer, but I am telling him. I have no intention of getting into a competition.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I think the best solution is the two-state solution. I will make my call as to the language I use, and when I use it. I wish Senator Ó Donnghaile would do the same when he meets his American interlocutors. I rarely hear Senator Ó Donnghaile or members of his party ever coming back from a delegation to the United States saying that they have raised Palestine with Senators or the friends of Ireland. They never do, but they will have a cut at us here.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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It is a fair point, and I am putting it back to the Senator. I think the Senator should be consistent-----

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I have answered the question on accountability, and I will answer it again. However, I am making a point. Senator Ó Donnghaile attacked me about language I used-----

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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The Senator did, and he had a criticism, which he is entitled to make, by the way.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I am entitled to respond also and say that I think Senator Ó Donnghaile is playing a double game here. When he goes to the United States and engages with United States Senators and Congress people, I rarely hear, in any press release afterwards, any commentary whatsoever about Palestine. The Senator's party tends to reserve it for the Irish Government all of the time, or certain parties within the Oireachtas. Suffice to say - and these are my final comments - Ireland has been consistent. Successive Governments have been. Most people recognise that internationally. There are certain issues which one has to calibrate, when one deploys certain policies or approaches to it. That is all I would say, and we can respectfully differ on that.

Fundamentally, international accountability is before the international courts, and international fora which specialise in accountability, which have expertise in respect of accountability built up through the years, and which are supported and recognised by the international community under various agencies. That is, ultimately, accountability. I do not subjectively decide on international accountability.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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What I can do, as Minister for Foreign Affairs and Defence, and what we can do as a Government and as a country, is strengthen the capacity of bodies like the International Criminal Court, the UN more generally, and the European Court of Human Rights. We can strengthen their capacities by supporting them with funding, resources and personnel. It is a source of great pride that we have an Irish woman at the head of the European Court of Human Rights.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I do not believe that specific legislation would have any impact on accountability, in real terms. Its practical application has always been questionable. As a symbol, it had merit in getting a message to Israel but in terms of its practical working out, Senator Ó Donnghaile would have to acknowledge that in terms of realities on the ground, there will always be difficulties with it. We are working with the European Union on labelling and so forth. It is not compatible with EU law.

However, in terms of real accountability, ultimately it is the idea that people who commit crimes - war crimes or atrocities against civilians - face the prospect of going before an international court. Ultimately, that is the accountability we are talking about, and that is real accountability. It is slow, and it is hard, but it has happened. We saw it in the Balkans, and we saw it happening elsewhere in the past, but it is very slow going. The most effective thing we can do is to continue to resource the international organisations that hold people to account. That means the UN agencies in particular, which go to where human rights violations happen, and come back with reports. It could just be a report from a senior UN official. We need to resource that. Increasingly, some of the five permanent members of the UN Security Council and others are frustrating efforts to resource those kinds of opportunities for international accountability.

Charles Flanagan (Laois-Offaly, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Tánaiste. Perhaps he can deal with Senator Wilson's question on Georgia and our support for Georgia.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I accept fully what Senator Wilson said. He is correct in terms of the territory, and it is about 10% of the population. That does not matter; parts of it are occupied.

I would like to say, in response to the point Senator O'Reilly made, that I am in favour of enlargement.

I fully accept what he is saying. He is correct in terms of the territory and 10% of the population. That does not matter. Parts of it are occupied. By the way, I am in favour of enlargement. I am passionate about it. As Taoiseach at the Council I was an early advocate of Ukraine joining the European Union. The western Balkans should have been accelerated a long time ago, in my view. What happened in North Macedonia and Albania was, in my view, an undue delay. I think we would have a much stronger position in the western Balkans today had there been enlargement sooner. That means there will be implications for how we govern the European Union into the future. There will be give and take in terms of the current governance structures around Europe. That is my general view. However, if we do not look after the neighbourhood others will meddle in the neighbourhood and create mayhem. That has now happened to a certain extent in the western Balkans and some other areas. We are very concerned about the declining health of Mikheil Saakashvili. He is a former President of Georgia. We believe it is the responsibility of the Georgian Government to ensure the health of all detainees, to provide adequate medical treatment and to respect their fundamental rights. EU member states agreed that the EU ambassador in Tbilisi would deliver a joint démarcheto the justice minister raising concerns about Mr. Saakashvili's condition. That démarchetook place yesterday, 27 February. That is an issue, and in the broader issue of reforms, the situation with Mr. Saakashvili is not giving confidence to the European community.

Charles Flanagan (Laois-Offaly, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Tánaiste for meeting with the committee. That brings matters to a conclusion. I thank the Tánaiste for his overview and update in terms of the report from the Foreign Affairs Council and of his priorities for the year. He has dealt with members' questions in a detailed manner.