Patrick Costello (Dublin South Central, Green Party)
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Apologies have been received from Deputies Funchion and Sherlock. The purpose of the meeting is to consider the Civil Law Act 2022 (Section 4 (2)) (Scheme Termination Date) Order 2023, to continue payments to hosts of Ukrainian refugees, which has been referred by the Dáil and the Seanad under the relevant Standing Orders. We are joined today by the Minister for Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth, Deputy O'Gorman, and Mr. John Lohan, principal officer. They are both very welcome to the meeting.

Before we begin, I have a few housekeeping matters to go through. I remind members of the constitutional requirement that they must be physically present within the confines of the Leinster House complex to participate in public meetings. I cannot permit a member to participate where they are not adhering to this requirement. Therefore, any member who attempts to participate from outside the precincts will be asked to leave the meeting. In this regard, I ask members partaking via MS Teams that, prior to making their contributions, they confirm they are on the grounds of the Leinster House campus.

In advance of inviting the Minister to deliver his opening statement, I wish to advise him of the following in respect of parliamentary privilege. For witnesses who are participating from the committee room, they are reminded of the long-standing parliamentary practice to the effect that they should not criticise or make charges against any person or entity by name or in such a way as to make him, her or it identifiable or otherwise engage in speech that might be regarded as damaging to the good name of the person or entity. Therefore, if their statements are potentially defamatory of an identifiable person or entity, they will be directed to discontinue their remarks. It is imperative they comply with any such direction. The opening statement will be followed by a decision on agreement of the motion, and if time allows, some questions on it. I invite the Minister to make his opening remarks.

Roderic O'Gorman (Dublin West, Green Party)
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I thank the members of the committee and appreciate them making time to let me move and discuss this motion today. The proposal I am bringing forward for the committee's consideration is an order to extend the termination date of the financial contribution scheme for hosts of beneficiaries of temporary protection, BOTPs, from Ukraine, known as the accommodation recognition payment, ARP. The scheme commenced last July and, where relevant, payments were back-dated to last March. I increased the monthly payment to hosts from €400 to €800 with effect from 1 December. To date, in excess of €18 million has been paid to more than 6,000 hosts in respect of more than 13,000 BOTPs. Part 2 of the Civil Law (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 2022 introduced the scheme with a termination date of 31 March 2023. That date reflected the duration of temporary protection provided under Council Directive 2001/55/EC of 20 July 2001, the temporary protection directive, which was activated by Council Decision (EU) 2022/382 of 4 March 2022.

In a continued spirit of unity with and support for the Ukrainian government and its citizens, the European Commission has extended temporary protection until March 2024. It is therefore appropriate to make an order to extend the ARP scheme termination date to the end of March 2024. Section 4(2) of the Act of 2022 enables me to make such change to a date considered appropriate, following consultation with the Minister for Social Protection and the Minister for Public Expenditure, National Development Plan Delivery and Reform. I can confirm to the committee that I have consulted my two ministerial colleagues. In changing the scheme termination date, I was mindful of the need to continue to provide for a financial contribution to assist in maintaining, if not increasing, the availability of accommodation for temporary protection beneficiaries. I thank all who have welcomed those fleeing Ukraine into their homes, and provided them with shelter, a safe space and a level of autonomy over their own lives. The Act of 2022 requires a draft order to be laid before and approved by both Houses of the Oireachtas. The motion was placed on the Seanad Order Paper for 16 February and on the Dáil Order Paper for 21 February. That concludes my statement. If I can be any further assistance to Deputies in answering questions, I will do so.

Mark Ward (Dublin Mid West, Sinn Fein)
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I thank the Minister for his statement. I just want to mention the 6,000 people who are hosting Ukrainian nationals. It is a really unselfish thing for people to do. While the financial contribution is welcome, I do not think it is the main reason people are doing that. I want to put that on the record. I am bit a unclear. Has any consideration been given to extending this scheme to host international protection applicants or is it down to the European Commission? What is the rationale behind that? I have another question after that.

Roderic O'Gorman (Dublin West, Green Party)
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The Deputy is absolutely right about the hosts and the significant personal sacrifices many households are making, particularly where a house is being shared, to ensure Ukrainians are welcome. It is important to say the origins of the 13,000 people who are being accommodated come through a variety of paths. Some come through the Red Cross pledge process and some come through the offer-a-home scheme that was opened more recently by the Department of Housing, Local Government and Heritage. Some are ad hocarrangements that people have entered into, and some hosts are Ukrainians who were living here in advance of the war and are hosting family members or friends in their own home. All are welcome and all are a welcome support.

The scheme is linked to the temporary protection directive. As we know, the directive applies solely to those fleeing the war in Ukraine. The scheme is not designed in such a way that it could be extended to either international protection applicants or, indeed, people in Ireland under the Irish refugee protection programme. I would certainly say that, in the medium term, we can learn from this scheme, learn from its successes and potentially look at it in terms of other mechanisms, but because it is linked directly to the temporary protection directive and the beneficiaries of the directive are Ukrainians, that is as far as the scheme can apply at the moment.

Mark Ward (Dublin Mid West, Sinn Fein)
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I have one more question. Are local authority tenants able to avail of the scheme and host Ukrainian nationals or would they be in breach of their tenancy agreements if they did so? That issue has been brought to my attention.

Roderic O'Gorman (Dublin West, Green Party)
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My understanding is local authority tenants can avail of this scheme and it will not result in a breach of their tenancy agreements. I think they have perhaps to notify the landlord or local authority that the arrangement is taking place, but once that has been done, they are able to provide the necessary accommodation and avail of the scheme.

Mark Ward (Dublin Mid West, Sinn Fein)
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I am probably going into minute details of housing policy, but does that include tenants such as HAP tenants, or would it be down to the landlord of the HAP tenancy to have that conversation with the tenant first?

Roderic O'Gorman (Dublin West, Green Party)
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In the situation of a HAP tenancy, there would be a requirement to engage with the landlord and to notify the local authority as well.

We designed the scheme in response to an emergency situation and have asked for flexibility in the approach, especially from local authorities.

Gary Gannon (Dublin Central, Social Democrats)
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I thank the Minister for attending. I will place on record that I do not underestimate for a second the challenge he has faced in the past year. I appreciate the efforts of his Department. We contribute in this committee in the hope of being collaborative and not to take away from the efforts of the Minister and his Department. It would be remiss of me not to mention the report card the Children's Rights Alliance published today. Has the Minister seen it, especially the recommendations regarding children in the international protection system? The first relates to an international protection child payment for all. Did the Minister see these recommendations? Does he wish to comment on any of them? A score card was published. The recommendations include that the Government should introduce an international protection child payment for all children living in the international protection system; the Government should commence HIQA inspections of existing international protection centres against national standards; and the Government should develop a new agency to deal with refugee accommodation with specific expertise in planning, procurement and construction and, in the interim, hire experts in planning, construction, housing and procurement to deal with refugee accommodation. How far away are we from these recommendations?

Roderic O'Gorman (Dublin West, Green Party)
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I thank the Deputy. The scorecard from the Children's Rights Alliance clearly indicates the real challenges we have faced in this area in the past year. The landscape has entirely changed from what it was in late 2021, for example, when we undertook the serious and still challenging task of ending direct provision by the end of 2024. We were dealing with accommodating and meeting the accommodation needs of 7,500 people with an expectation of 3,500 to 4,000 people arriving per year. As the Deputy will be aware, 15,000 people arrived in 2022 and we are now accommodating a total number of 20,000 people. Therefore, 2022 was a year of responsiveness in a crisis rather than one of undertaking the longer term reform we all would have liked to undertake.

Nevertheless we want to undertake longer term reform. I am acutely aware that children are the most vulnerable people in the international protection process. We are examining the use of an improved child payment for those seeking international protection. As the Deputy is aware, adults and children seeking international protection receive a payment of €38 per week for an adult and €30 per child. It is a very small payment. Recognising the risk of poverty faced by children generally but specifically those in the international protection system, we will be looking at that in 2023.

HIQA will begin to undertake inspections of international protection accommodation this year. We have reached an agreement with the agency. It has designed criteria against which it will be monitoring international protection accommodation. It will be rolled out over the course of this year. That will be a positive step. HIQA involvement will provide significant expertise and a level of assurance .

I and my Department are engaging with Government colleagues on setting up an agency. It is needed to create a system through which we can meet the needs of more people in our migration system. We all have to accept that the 15,000 people seeking international protection was not a blip. The low numbers of 2,500 or 3,000 people we have seen in the past are likely to remain in the past. I think in future we are likely to see significantly higher numbers of people seeking international protection. The past year has shown that one Department alone cannot deal with both the immediate accommodation needs and the wider integration supports. It is not possible. Some kind of body is needed, whether it is an office or an agency. Thinking of our response to Covid-19, it was led by the Department of Health but the Department had the tens of thousands of staff in the HSE to implement actions. My Department does not have an agency or body to take action on the accommodation and integration needs. Something along those lines should be brought forward. That commitment was not in the programme for Government but we must respond to the changed landscape we spoke about earlier.

Gary Gannon (Dublin Central, Social Democrats)
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The cross-party collaborative nature of the national public health emergency team, NPHET, committee or the Covid-19 committee helped us in communicating messages, understanding and working across the spectrum on different challenges we faced. If a new committee or agency is to be established, it could involve all political parties and the whole political system. Does the Minister see it happening in the lifetime of this Government? One of the observations that has been made is that a large burden is placed on the Minister's Department. I have stated previously that it is eyebrow-raising to see a Minister on the radio during a time of crisis calling for all Departments to play their role in responding to the crisis. Do we need to see a different agency come to the fore in a more immediate sense? How long would it take? We cannot wait until the next Government emergency. This needs to happen quickly.

Patrick Costello (Dublin South Central, Green Party)
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Before the Minister answers, I remind Deputy Gannon that the topic of today's meeting is the motion and I suggest the next questions be slightly more on topic.

Gary Gannon (Dublin Central, Social Democrats)
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I apologise. I am going to leave in a minute. I am happy to come back.

Roderic O'Gorman (Dublin West, Green Party)
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A Government decision would be needed on whether the agency is the direction we go. If so, it will take some time. It is not something that can be brought about today or tomorrow, nor should it be. However, I believe that is the direction Government policy should go. It does not necessarily have to be this Government but whatever Government is in place could do it. Policy should be to set up an agency that can co-ordinate accommodation and wider integration issues. I hope if it is agreed as a policy, that this Government can begin the work of moving us in that direction and, at the same time, enhance the level of expertise in the operationalisation of these policy responses in my Department. Potentially, many of those experts could migrate to the agency if the decision is taken to establish one.

Patrick Costello (Dublin South Central, Green Party)
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Are there any further questions for the Minister? No. I thank the Minister and his officials for appearing before the committee this afternoon. I propose to publish his opening statement on the Oireachtas website. Is that agreed? Agreed.