Ms Br?d O'Brien:

Yes. Likewise, if somebody makes the welfare to work journey and has family responsibilities, they may be able to access the working family payment. Again, there are time concerns around that. The operation of all that should be much more efficient and effective. People should not be left with this awful choice of staying on an inadequate welfare payment or going to a job that might not be a huge improvement but where they might be able to move on to something else. People feel there is a large gap in the middle. We should be able to address that and get it right. Whether some of what the Department has outlined in its December release around the working age payment will help with some of that needs further exploration. It might for some people and might create other trapdoors for others, so that will need to be explored.

Likewise, picking up in the point Ms Rogers was making, the world of work is changing. People need those supports to be able to reskill if necessary, to look at what skills they have and which of them are transferable, to investigate how to get a good job, how to apply, who to talk to and so on. Those supports should be available for everybody regardless of whether they are on a welfare payment and which one they are on. If people then make that journey and it does not work out, the journey back should not be a torturous one. We need to ensure the system is as supportive of people as possible so that we smooth out all of the bumps that are currently on the road, some of which are very big and leave people making awful choices between the devil and the deep blue sea.