Oireachtas Joint and Select Committees

Thursday, 19 January 2023

Committee on Public Petitions

Public Petition on St. Brigid’s Hospital, Carrick-on-Suir: Save St. Brigid’s Action Group

Photo of Pat BuckleyPat Buckley (Cork East, Sinn Fein)
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I welcome all the witnesses and the people in the Gallery. I am known for being blunt. The big problem we have here - let us cut straight to the chase - is that there is absolutely no oversight in the HSE. We in this committee have met a number of times to discuss other centres, and the exact same excuse comes up, that is, buildings are not fit for purpose, and instead of investing in them, the HSE just closes them. In my town, Midleton, we have a 22-bed respite and mental health centre and we have battled for the past year, or maybe 18 months to two years at this stage, with the exact same excuse: the building is not fit for purpose.

The following is the advice I will give the witnesses. They should look at the reports from any of the organisations that went in, whether HIQA or otherwise, and try to access that information in the reports. I have reports that date back to 2016 right up to 2021 on the centre in Midleton. The HSE did not spend a brown penny, and it is the patients and the families who are suffering. Ours went from a 22-bed centre - 20 long-term respite and two short-term respite - to a centre where we now have six residents, which is what we call them. We do not call them patients because it is their home for more than 30-odd years. They are the ones who are suffering. The witnesses will find that the HSE will blame Tusla for the recommendations, but I urge them to find out what, if any, recommendations were made prior to the announcement of the closure and to see if the HSE actually took the recommendations on board. That is the first thing I would say to them.

There is respite and then there are associated services. They could be chiropody, dental, mental health - anything. The witnesses will lose all those as well in the community. While I had the honour of sitting on the Sláintecare committee, I am listening to the witnesses today and I have listened to this before with other centres. There is a trend now coming between Carrick-on-Suir, east Cork and, a couple of weeks ago, west Cork, in Bantry, where there was something similar with mental health beds. It is the same thing: when these services are lost, they are gone. The knock-on effect of that is that when something is lost in the community, there are no step-down beds. If there are no step-down beds, it puts pressure on the main hospitals, thus leading to overcrowding. Then there is a big explosion instead of an implosion.

Coming back to privacy, dignity and associated services, I read one of the articles on this in which an elderly gentleman said it was a home away from home. The Sláintecare report refers to having community-led, fully integrated services within each community. What I have seen in maybe the past two years is that the HSE is coming up with the excuses and - the witnesses should watch this - will blame Tusla for this.

It will say it is not its fault but Tusla's fault because it submitted the report and said it was not fit for purpose. Be very careful in that regard because it said exactly the same thing about the centre in my home town, the Owenacurra Centre. Yet, when I look at this, there were reports in 2016, 2017, 2018, 2019 and two reports in 2020, with a mismatch of half a fire report and half of another one on it. It was all over the place, yet the HSE spent nothing. I commend the 10,000 people who signed the petition. This is people power here. The beauty of this committee is that it is apolitical because this is the last chance saloon for people to air genuine concerns. It makes me very angry that the most vulnerable people in our community will bear the brunt of the incompetence of whoever is running the place. What makes this worse is that when people put their hands into their own pockets to keep the hospital going, that too is dismissed. It beggars belief.

This centre covers a very large area, extending into counties Tipperary, Waterford and Kilkenny. That is a massive area. The population is ageing, yet we are being regressive with services. The pendulum is swinging in one direction as demographics show an ageing population whereas services are reducing. I guarantee that in 12 months’ time the HSE will address the Minister and say we have a problem here. The biggest problem here is the lack of HSE oversight. I will look for a report or recommendation to see if the HSE actually invested money in the services.

This action group certainly has my full support in this. I agree that the HSE and Tusla must appear before the committee to answer questions for all those in the Public Gallery and those who signed the petition. It is downright disgusting and degrading to see what happens when community-led services are privatised. They are no longer people-led or people-centred but driven by profit and euro. I commend the action group.

There is no such thing as a stupid question in this committee. The issue is the stupid response people will get.

I will leave our guests with this example. I asked a question of the HSE one time that featured the words “blue” and “pen”. I received two separate responses and “blue” or “pen” were not mentioned in them. That is what the action group will deal with. It will meet resistance. I cannot understand why there is resistance within the HSE. I am talking about management, not front-line workers. It is top-heavy management. We raised this issue last night in the Dáil when we discussed the trolley crisis. St. Brigid's in Carrick-on-Suir, the Owenacurra Centre, Bantry Hospital and elsewhere are perfect examples of the HSE closing community-led services, leading to overcrowding in our hospitals and adding fuel to the fire.

It beggars belief that the action group must come before this committee. I am delighted the Chair and all the members have facilitated this meeting because it is probably one of the most powerful, open and level committees. It is also, however, the last chance people have to air their views because where can they turn to after this?