Ruairí Ó Murchú (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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Professor O'Brennan has dealt with the part about ensuring you have the pipeline of people. I agree that it would not be a bad idea, particularly if you are talking about workforce planning, etc.

Professor O'Brennan got into the wider issue about engagement with the institutions and the European project. We have had the Conference on the Future of Europe project. If you went out onto the street, you would not find five people who knew that conference happened. In any event,for all the difficulties that exist, it has been useful. When I was over recently, there were discussions about proposed European legislation whereby a specific look is going to be taken at creating randomly selected citizens' panels. I do not know how this could be done in the context of every item of legislation. I accept, however, that if you have the time, it is not necessarily a bad idea. We have seen how citizens' assemblies have worked here. They have sometimes have worked a lot more imaginatively and creatively than politics could. I suppose that is welcome.

There has also been a significant amount of conversation on Deputy Howlin's point to the effect that you could go around these Houses and not find a huge number of people who are relatively well-informed on the operations of the European institutions and the work they are doing. At times, there has been no real communication other than when, for example, legislation needs to be transposed. You are almost dealing with it after the fact. I suppose it is about ensuring that there will be means and mechanisms for Deputies to ask questions of the Commission and Commissioners. We have had a fair amount of interaction ourselves, but that is with a small number of people on very specific issues. It is the whole idea of citizens, politicians or whomever being able to trigger legislation or debates or conversation in Europe. Getting all of those pieces together is the issue. Many here with more experience than me would have said that there was a certain reliance on Britain from the point of view of doing due diligence on legislation and whatever was happening. Even though we have not reached the place we need to be in relation to all of that, at least that conversation is happening across Europe and there is an acceptance of it. Some of us have sat on working groups that at least put proposals together in that regard. It is just a matter of doing it faster, quicker and better, but it fits in completely with the point Professor O'Brennan is making.

There is a need to make sure, insofar as is possible, that people realise what is going on in Europe. Europe is an easier sell these days. If you were trying to sell this during the financial crash, you would not have got a whole pile of people backing you on that argument, and rightfully so. When we are talking about referendums there are particular issues relating to Europe. However, we will park that. It is far to say that Brexit, Covid and the Ukrainian crisis have shown people across Europe their utter reliance on each other. We are the only show in town, to some degree, in the context of future positive developments.

I agree with the Professor. It is worthwhile bringing the Minister in to discuss this. It is not just about jobs; we have to get to grips with the wider interaction piece, even if it is only between Leinster House and the European institutions.