Brian Leddin (Limerick City, Green Party)
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I will make a few observations myself as no other members are indicating. I spent the past few weeks reading submissions on proposed active travel projects in my home city. There are hundreds of them. I draw the attention of the witnesses to them because Limerick's local authority is actually out in front in proposing some really good schemes. However, once the public starts getting engaged, the process becomes very challenging. These submissions form a really interesting data set. Perhaps they do not represent the fullness of public opinion on these active travel schemes, which will impact on and benefit communities, but they certainly show engagement from both ends of the spectrum, that is, those who are very much in favour of these measures and those who are very much against them.

There is much to draw from what they are saying. Interestingly, of the hundreds of well thought-out and argued submissions I read, none mentioned climate and that this is the reason we are doing this. There was no understanding on either side of the argument, whatever people might have felt the right thing to do was with respect to climate action, that this is why we are doing it. I found that fascinating. We have a hell of a lot to think about with regard to everything we have heard today if we are to get through to the public about the kind of systemic change that is needed. I agree with Dr. Lunn that the challenge is in changing our systems, which will not be easy. There is a brick wall somewhere where the message is simply not getting through.

The media have an important role to play. Editorial policy and advertising have been touched on in this discussion. The example of tobacco-related advertising was given and how these companies were vilified. Dr. Lunn might correct me if I am wrong, but I think the evidence shows that was effective and that fewer people smoke in countries that have these regulations related to tobacco advertising. It seems to me cars are in the same realm, not just with regard to the climate but also damage to people's health from localised emissions and the sedentary lifestyles associated with a car-oriented society. There is an economic impact too. There is an idea that enabling the flow of cars is good for the economy but the evidence shows it is not and that, if liveable towns and city centres are provided, there is more footfall because cars are limited by physics and their sheer size. It is not possible to get as many people into a town or city centre if a transport system is based around cars.

Going back to tobacco, it seems that health is a powerful lever. If people are not necessarily interested in climate or it is abstract for them, they are absolutely interested in their health. There is evidence, when you lean into health arguments, that it matters to people, who will then change their behaviours. We saw evidence of this last year when there was a significant national debate regarding smoky fuels. When doctors started to say that, regardless of climate, this was affecting people's personal health and the health of those around them, it swayed the debate such that we have those regulations now.

I am interested in reading the report the ESRI published this morning. Has Dr. Lunn done similar studies in the past? Can we see trends emerging now? There was a headline I picked up on this morning that young people aged between 16 and 24 agree we should have pedestrianised town and city centres and we should not have internal domestic aviation. Can we see trends or is this the first study of this kind? I do not have too many questions but there is certainly much to think about. We will have two more sessions on this subject in the next two weeks, leading up to Christmas. We will ultimately write a report based on everything we hear. It is to be hoped we will get consensus across the committee and important findings and recommendations that we can then bring to Government to try to influence policy. If the witnesses want to respond to any of those points, I would be interested in hearing their thoughts.