Denis Naughten (Roscommon-Galway, Independent)
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I remind members, officials and those in the Gallery to please ensure their phones are switched off for the duration of the meeting as they interfere with the broadcasting equipment even on silent mode.

This meeting has being convened to consider the Supplementary Estimate - Vote 42, Rural and Community Development, which was referred to the committee by Dáil Éireann. I welcome the Minister for Social Protection, Deputy Humphreys; the Minister of State, Deputy Joe O'Brien; and their officials to the meeting. I thank them for providing a briefing document in advance of the meeting. As the Ministers are present, officials should not speak in public session.

Members are reminded of the long-standing parliamentary practice to the effect that they should not comment on, criticise or make charges against a person outside the Houses or an official, either by name or in such a way as to make him or her identifiable.

I wish to advise the Minister that her opening statement and any other documents she has submitted to the committee may be published on its website after the meeting. I invite the Minister to make her opening statement.

Heather Humphreys (Cavan-Monaghan, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Chairman and members of the committee. As they will all know at this stage, I was very keen that the Department of Rural and Community Development was kept as a stand-alone Department, which is why I have two separate Supplementary Estimates before the committee today. I am happy now to give a brief overview of the Supplementary Estimates for the Department of Rural and Community Development. The proposed Supplementary Estimates cover an additional €10 million for the energy support scheme for community and voluntary organisations not covered by other support schemes; an additional €150,000 for payroll costs relating to the recent Building Momentum wage agreement; movement of €4 million from subhead A7, rural regeneration and development, to meet demand under subhead A5, LEADER; and movement of €1.9 million from current to capital within subhead B6, support for disadvantaged communities, which funds the Dublin north-east inner city, NEIC, initiative.

As I have said, the first adjustment involves the provision of €10 million in new funding for the energy support scheme for community and voluntary organisations. This scheme was announced as part of budget 2022 and will help to support community and voluntary organisations around the country that are not eligible for support under the temporary business energy support scheme, TBESS, which is being administered by the Revenue Commissioners. Recognising the importance of the voluntary sector around the country, the Government has put in place a number of support schemes covering areas such as sports organisations, cultural institutions, and community-based health and social care providers. The scheme being operated by my Department will provide €10 million to support community and voluntary groups which are not eligible for support under these other schemes. Pobal is administering this scheme on behalf of my Department, and applications are open until 2 December, with the financial support being made available as soon as possible thereafter.

The second adjustment will provide an additional €150,000 for the Department’s payroll costs for 2022, relating to recent commitments under the Building Momentum wage agreement. While the increased costs will amount to €300,000 in 2022, the Department can cover €150,000 of this from payroll savings within its previously allocated resources. The additional €150,000 will increase payroll for 2022 by 1.3%.

Separately, there are also two technical supplementary adjustments which involve the reallocation of resources from one area to another, with no increase to the voted allocation for the Department. First, the LEADER programme has seen very strong demand in recent years, with 5,500 projects being supported under the current and transitional programmes. The original Estimate for the LEADER programme in 2022 was for expenditure of €48 million. This now needs to increase to €52 million to meet the additional demand in 2022. This €4 million will be moved from subhead A7, rural regeneration and development. Subhead A7, which had an allocation of €97 million for 2022, funds the rural regeneration and development fund, RRDF, the town and village renewal scheme and the outdoor recreation infrastructure scheme. From early 2022, as a result of the knock-on effects of construction delays during Covid, it was apparent that demand under the RRDF would not meet expectations. In August, I decided to double the local improvement scheme funding from €11 million to €22 million using savings from this area. Further savings of €10.5 million have also been used to support the community response in assisting Ukrainian refugees throughout the country. In addition, €5 million has been used for a community support fund to help community groups with increased costs and €500,000 has been provided to meet demand under the community centre investment fund. With regard to these savings under the RRDF scheme, I have engaged with local authorities throughout the year to emphasise the need for quicker delivery of RRDF projects and the importance of local authorities delivering on the commitments they make when applying for the funding. Real progress is being made. There are now over 100 RRDF projects being delivered throughout the country and this will ensure a very strong spend for 2023. In addition, as Deputies will be aware, I recently announced €115 million under the RRDF. This is the largest ever allocation under the fund since it was introduced in 2018 and will ensure there is a strong pipeline of projects for the years ahead.

The second technical supplementary adjustment involves moving €1.9 million from current to capital under subhead B6, supports for disadvantaged communities. This is to enable the Dublin NEIC initiative to support those projects which have been approved by the NEIC programme implementation board. The original Estimate was put in place prior to the decisions on funding being made by the programme implementation board and it is now necessary for the Vote to reflect the higher capital spend which is taking place in 2022. Current expenditure within this subhead has reduced by the same amount, and so expenditure will remain within the agreed funding envelope.

In closing, I would like to thank the committee for taking the time to consider the Supplementary Estimate and for its courtesy and support throughout the year as we seek to deliver programmes which I know are making a real and lasting difference in towns, villages and parishes across the country. Myself and my colleague, the Minister of State, Deputy Joe O’Brien, are happy to answer any questions that members might have.

Marc Ó Cathasaigh (Waterford, Green Party)
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I wish to ask for clarification on two points. The first is on the energy support scheme. We have TBESS announcements coming from the Department of Tourism, Culture, Arts, Gaeltacht, Sport and Media and from the Minister's Department.

I just want clarity, particularly for those clubs, community groups and voluntary associations that are going to be applying for this, about how streamlined the process is going to be. We all know these voluntary groups put a lot of time into these things off their own bat. I do not want them applying for one income stream when they should be applying for another more appropriate one. What are we doing to make sure these are coherent, that they work off each other, that we do not leave people to fall through the gaps, and that we do not end up by doubling or trebling the work that these community groups have to do?

My other point relates to the rural regeneration and development fund, RRDF. The Minister was with us in Waterford and west Waterford. She made the announcement of €115 million in Cappoquin. She also visited Tallow, Villierstown and Lismore and saw the great work that is happening in those communities. I could bring the Minister on a virtual tour of Waterford and name all of the other towns that I would like to see getting RRDF funding, and I am sure every member of the committee could do the same for their constituency. We are seeing a degree of policy coherence in terms of how we are tackling rural areas, with Our Rural Future, Town Centre First and Croí Conaithe, which should be successful in unlocking vacant properties in our town centres.

Can we put a rocket under the local authorities? I am quite happy to see the money going to LEADER, local improvement schemes and all the rest, but I really believe in the impact that RRDF funding can have within communities. I do not like the idea of underspending or of the money that should be spent on these types of projects being returned. Can we focus the minds of people in our local authorities to make sure they are spending this money when it is allocated?

Heather Humphreys (Cavan-Monaghan, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Deputy for raising those issues. In terms of energy, the GAA clubs and all of the sports organisations apply to the Department with responsibility for sport. Then there is support for businesses. I wanted to make sure that the community and voluntary sector got the support it needed. We have a €10 million fund that is being administered by Pobal on our behalf. If an organisation is a registered charity, it applies to Pobal. There are also some others out there and I thought that we have to cover them off as well. Some groups are not registered and they are playing a very important role because they are community groups doing good work on the ground. Therefore, we gave another €10 million to the local authorities and that will be administered through the local community development committees, LCDCs. Each local authority has been allocated a fund, all of which are over €200,000 or €300,000. I do not have the list for every local authority but it was announced last week. The local authorities have a pot of money and it is up to them to support the groups that do not fit anywhere else, which is basically what this fund is about. All of the registered ones can apply to Pobal and then there are the others, which are probably smaller groups, and they can get support through the local authority. We just wanted to make sure that there were no gaps in any of this and that community organisations that, for example, have electricity bills that are bigger than they thought, would be able to get support. They might need to buy something or there might be some small cost, and they can apply for that fund. That is its purpose.

The Deputy asked about town centres and the RRDF. I thank him for the warm welcome I had in Waterford. I also thank him for the blaa, which was very good. I was in Cappoquin to announce the biggest ever funding under the RRDF of €115 million. We can see where the people in Cappoquin are going to spend the money, and it is needed. They have started to make changes there. I was in the old pub that was converted and turned into a remote working hub. It is a fine job. That was supported through one of the schemes in my Department. I went to visit a number of other places. This money is making a difference on the ground. I encourage communities that have not looked at what is available to come together. I have been encouraging the LEADER companies and local development companies to try to build capacity. I always believe that some communities are very well organised and are great at filling out the application forms - they tick all the boxes - but there are those that are not as good at doing that. I want to reach out to them as well. I want everybody to get a fair share. I do not want the same people coming back all of the time and getting funding because they are good at submitting applications. Obviously, we have to have a standard. We are talking about a lot of money and there has to be good corporate governance. Local authorities need to be involved as well because they are able to help out in many different ways.

In terms of rural regeneration, we are seeing progress. There are 102 projects at implementation stage, which means under construction for category 1 projects. We are pushing local authorities to deliver. We have met with the City and County Management Association to say that the local authorities need to deliver. The Secretary General of my Department has also written to the local authorities to keep the pressure on. I know there are a lot of demands on local authorities, and the Department of Housing, Local Government and Heritage is pushing them to deliver as well. I want to see delivery for rural areas and for towns and villages too.

We have appointed town centre first officers. They should be able to pull things together. Again, it is about working with the business community and looking at the plans. For towns that do not have plans, we are supporting them to get a plan in place, see where they want to go, see what they need in their town, build on their strengths and address the weaknesses. The town centre first officers should be able to pull a lot of that together. We have funded them from the Department of Rural and Community Development. The town centre first policy will dovetail with the work of the Minister of State, Deputy Peter Burke. I launched Town Centre First in Moate with the Ministers of State, Deputies Peter Burke and Deputy Noonan. There is a strong focus on planning and working together. In my Department, there has to be a funding stream that suits whatever scheme people are thinking of. We have a plethora of different things and there is bound to be something people can apply for. If there is not, I will be surprised, let me put it that way.

Paul Donnelly (Dublin West, Sinn Fein)
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I want to start with the energy support scheme. I read in the documentation that the Minister has given us that any unspent funding will be sent back to the Department. Is there any possibility for that unspent money to be put into a second tranche in the new year around energy supports? We do not really know how energy costs are going to go. We have an idea and I see from the garages that fuel costs have been dropping. However, we suspect that if we have a bad winter, that will rise substantially. Is there a possibility or thoughts that if there is money left over, there would be a second round later in the year?

I welcome the community centre fund. This is something we have been calling for over several years, so it is good to see. Certain projects in Dublin 15 have applied for it. In the short time it has been in place, has there been an evaluation or a review in regard to the actual need? How do the applications coming in and what people are applying for match the funding that is there? Do we need a substantial amount of extra funding, which I think is the case?

The community services programme is reopening early next year. I again call for the Department to look again at core funding in the context of getting people up to the minimum wage. It should be the case that projects can pay the minimum wage in order that earnings will not be affected and then people can be brought up to the living wage. That is where we should all be at.

Heather Humphreys (Cavan-Monaghan, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Deputy. I will start with energy support.

We need to spend what we can this year. The bills are here now. We can look at it again next year, but we cannot spend the 2022 money next year. In fairness, we have been good at getting the money out. We encourage people to submit applications so that we can get the money out as quickly as possible. We cannot carry over money but we can look at it again next year. It should help next year. People need to get applications in quickly. Applications to Pobal for registered charities are open. Local authorities are rolling out the other process, which should not take them long because they previously rolled out supports to community centres, which got a small grant in the past, so they should have a system in place.

The community centres investment fund was a popular fund. It was so popular that on the closing date for applications, 14 July, we had 1,047 applications to the value of almost €71 million. Many of the applications were for energy upgrades. Community centres wanted to put in new windows and improve heating systems. That increases the efficiency of buildings. It was good to see that. In October, I announced 600 successful projects to the value of €12.5 million. There were ineligible applications among those 1,047. The appraisal process for categories 2 and 3 is ongoing and, in the next week or two, I will make an announcement.

In budget 2023, I secured a further €20 million that will be used to fund upgrades and improvements under the recent call for proposals. It should allow a future targeted scheme for new builds of community centres. I know there are communities that have nothing. We will look at a new builds of community centres. Details of the fund will be announced later. When they are announced, I will put them on the Department's website.

Joe O'Brien (Dublin Fingal, Green Party)
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The transfer to the new community services programme, CSP, model is in progress. Organisations had a window which closed a week or two ago to apply to transfer to the new model. The new model will be better with regard to how much we contribute to wages. It will be matched in a more tailored way to the needs of specific organisations. There are three strands and three levels. We got an additional €3.5 million to facilitate that in budget 2023. Some 90% of organisations in the CSP will see increased contributions from us. We should be in a position early in the new year to open a fresh call, although it will be limited, because our focus in budget 2023 was bumping up the allocation for those already in the scheme, which limits our ability to add new ones next year, but we will add some and will open a call for that.

Éamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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If I understand correctly, there is €97 million in the rural regeneration fund. Before today, the Department has transferred €20.5 million of that, leaving €77 million in the Vote. Is that correct?

Heather Humphreys (Cavan-Monaghan, Fine Gael)
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That is correct.

Éamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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The Minister is transferring another €4 million.

Heather Humphreys (Cavan-Monaghan, Fine Gael)
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Yes, to LEADER.

Éamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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That leaves €73 million, give or take. Does that include the carryover?

Heather Humphreys (Cavan-Monaghan, Fine Gael)
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The carryover goes into the overall-----

Éamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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It does not go into the Estimate.

Heather Humphreys (Cavan-Monaghan, Fine Gael)
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The carryover from last year is all spent.

Éamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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The carryover is all spent. That is fine. How much of that €73 million has been spent, as we sit here on 23 November?

Heather Humphreys (Cavan-Monaghan, Fine Gael)
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Some €67 million has been spent out of the €97 million, which was the first amount the Deputy mentioned.

Éamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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Does that include the money being shifted out?

Heather Humphreys (Cavan-Monaghan, Fine Gael)
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Yes.

Éamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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Some €30 million is left.

Heather Humphreys (Cavan-Monaghan, Fine Gael)
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Yes.

Éamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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That means that only €43 million of the Vote has been spent. On this day next month, the Minister will have closed the books. I think that happens on the Friday before Christmas.

Heather Humphreys (Cavan-Monaghan, Fine Gael)
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We cannot carry over some.

Éamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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Carrying money over is better than giving it back but not much better. The ideal thing is to get the money on the ground fully, every year. Every year, we are told that money will not be carried over. I am disappointed that, once again, we are depending on a carryover mechanism. Maybe if things had been moved on earlier, the Minister could have spent more of the capital. If she had moved in June, the Minister could have spent another €11 million or €30 million on local improvement scheme roads, and at that point, one would only have wet one's tongue with the problems with those roads. The big boys on the motorways do not care about the little boys up the boreen but it does not mean the work does not have to be done. I have made my point.

My second question relates to many older halls which are owned by trustees and are not incorporated. The Minister referred to unincorporated community and voluntary organisations, which is to say, people who own community properties. It is only in the past 20 years that people have started forming these companies, limited by guarantee, and all those structures which have received charity status. Many well-used old halls are still dependent on trustees. Why are unincorporated community and voluntary organisations, which is to say parish halls around the country, left out of this energy scheme? It seems unduly restrictive.

I could branch out but I will confine myself to issues within the Estimate as the Minister has raised it so that I do not delay everything.

Denis Naughten (Roscommon-Galway, Independent)
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Absolutely. I ask the Deputy to keep within the Estimate.

Éamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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There is a little money, some €1.6 million, for the north east inner city, NEIC, but we identified 50 urban communities with high levels of disadvantage, antisocial behaviour and people from these areas being imprisoned and so on. I applaud the work the Minister is doing in NEIC but these issues are replicated in towns and cities all over the country. This is a phenomenon that happens in towns and cities. As the Minister knows, there is a programme which I think was initiated in Pat Rabbitte's time, called the RAPID programme. It focused exclusively on these areas and could save a fortune in the justice system by reducing all the problems we have in these communities. These problems affected people in the communities the most. We have to recognise that. Some 95% of people in these disadvantaged communities are trying to get on with their lives but because of the disadvantage of the community as a whole, they face a disproportionate number of social issues.

One of the concepts of community development was that it would be focused particularly on vulnerable communities. This is what RAPID was about. I do not care if it is called anything else. I am not fussed about the name. We seem to have lost our focus on the scientifically identified communities with the highest level of challenge regarding education, crime, antisocial behaviour, drug abuse, housing and homelessness etc. Give me a community garda any day to try to solve it rather than a garda with an Uzi submachine gun. I not believe in heavy policing. These are societal and community problems that are spreading to other things. An awful lot of the people in these communities who wind up in prison are in prison for a year or less. Unfortunately, some of the young people go into prison and come out worse than they went in. Will the Minister and Minister of State give deep consideration to looking at what they are doing in the north-east inner city and state this is not confined to north-inner city Dublin? There are other places south of the river and throughout the city. We could all name them. As I have said, we identified approximately 50 of them. Will the Government think of going back and putting a big focus not so much on a police response to these issues but on a community response to reducing the challenges in these communities?

Heather Humphreys (Cavan-Monaghan, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Deputy. As I said in my opening comment, we are keeping the pressure on the various local authorities to make sure the money is spent and the projects are delivered. We want delivery on the ground. We expect there will be a good deal of spend at the end of the year. As the Deputy knows, as he has been in the Department with responsibility for community and rural development and as well as the Department of Social Protection, a good few bills will come in during the last month, in December. Having said that-----

Éamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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There is a bit of bluff there because-----

Heather Humphreys (Cavan-Monaghan, Fine Gael)
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There is no bluff.

Éamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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There is.

Heather Humphreys (Cavan-Monaghan, Fine Gael)
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I am telling the Deputy. I am out all the time giving out to them.

Éamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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The Minister will wind up in this dilemma and it used to drive me crazy. I accept it is a perennial problem and not so easy to resolve but I will highlight the issue. A bill will come to the Minister on 10 December and she will have money left over. Bills are held back. In theory there should be an entire process before there is clearance for payment, including getting out inspectors and so on. The temptation is to pay and say the inspection will be done in January. They know this. It is time the whole bluff of this game is called. We all want to say that if it is not in by 1 December to give us time to properly process it, that it will not be included. The beginning of December is seven days from today.

Heather Humphreys (Cavan-Monaghan, Fine Gael)
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I assure the Deputy we are keeping the pressure on. I have laid it on as hard as I can to make sure about delivery. Announcements are no good without delivery. This is what I am focused on. The Deputy can rest assured we are doing all that we can. It does not affect the level of inspections or governance if it is paid in December. Inspectors are still out there checking. As the Deputy knows, if it is not done right in one county the money comes back. We are keeping an eye. The Deputy mentioned the local improvement scheme, LIS. It is a scheme I am very fond of, as is the Deputy. It has improved many roads in rural Ireland. Somebody from a city made a comment about the rural schemes. I told that person we would not be getting our milk on the table if the lorry cannot get the milk from the farmer because the lane is substandard. The LIS plays a very important role. I wish I had more money.

Éamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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Switch off the street lights in Dublin and they will find out.

Heather Humphreys (Cavan-Monaghan, Fine Gael)
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Yes. We will have funded 77% of what local authorities could deliver before the year ends. We asked them all what they could do. They sent us in our list and got 77% of what they could deliver. That is what we have done.

A question was asked about community centres. Requests for funding of less than €25,000 are for unincorporated community centres. In other words support of up to €25,000 is fine. For the bigger amounts we felt it was proper there would be corporate governance because it is taxpayers' money. This is why we said they needed to be-----

Éamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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For the energy scheme.

Heather Humphreys (Cavan-Monaghan, Fine Gael)
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I apologise. I thought the Deputy was speaking about the community hot spots.

Éamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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If I read this right with regard to the energy scheme coming up to Christmas, it states in order to be eligible for the scheme a community organisation must have a service supply and a meter point reference number, MPRN, and so on.

Heather Humphreys (Cavan-Monaghan, Fine Gael)
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That is the one done through Pobal. A registered organisation applies through Pobal. If it is not registered it goes to the local authority and applies through the local community development committee, LCDC.

Éamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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I do not understand going to the LCDC. Will the Minister explain this to the uninitiated? Rather than sending something to the Department which passes it on, it goes to the LCDC. I thought that was only a committee.

Heather Humphreys (Cavan-Monaghan, Fine Gael)
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It is through the local authorities. It is administered and the LCDC approves it. We have distributed €10 million across all local authorities for applications from unincorporated charitable bodies or organisations that want a bit of support. The local authorities will take the applications and pay out the money. The local knowledge is there. They have paid out money previously on our behalf. The whole system is there.

Éamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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If an organisation makes an application to the Department that should rightly have gone to the local authority and it is sent on the last possible day, as many Irish people tend to do with schemes, will the Department automatically send it on and say it was on time or will that organisation get caught because it did not realise the fine line details? People often get confused with these and it is easy enough to do so.

Heather Humphreys (Cavan-Monaghan, Fine Gael)
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Yes, it is. Pobal is already open for applications. If an application does not qualify for the scheme for which we have given Pobal the money to administer, it will refer it to the local authority.

Éamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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Automatically?

Heather Humphreys (Cavan-Monaghan, Fine Gael)
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It will explain that it is to be sent to the local authority.

Éamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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My point is there is a closing date.

Heather Humphreys (Cavan-Monaghan, Fine Gael)
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Yes, but the other scheme is not open yet.

Éamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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If Pobal gets an application on the closing date by the time it sends it on the closing date will be gone for the local authority.

Heather Humphreys (Cavan-Monaghan, Fine Gael)
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No.

Éamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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Will the organisation be caught?

Heather Humphreys (Cavan-Monaghan, Fine Gael)
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No it is not caught because the local authority scheme is not yet open. The Pobal scheme is open. I take the Deputy's point. If Pobal gets an application that should-----

Éamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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It is a pity it is not a one-stop-shop.

Heather Humphreys (Cavan-Monaghan, Fine Gael)
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You see-----

Éamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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The modern world always seems to make the simple complicated.

Heather Humphreys (Cavan-Monaghan, Fine Gael)
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No, we are not trying to make it complicated. The local authorities will be flexible.

Éamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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No, a rule is a rule is a rule. We are finding it more and more. There was a time when social welfare appeals were flexible.

Heather Humphreys (Cavan-Monaghan, Fine Gael)
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The Deputy sees what I am trying to do. I am trying to give everybody a chance to get some of the money in the pot.

Éamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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I know.

Heather Humphreys (Cavan-Monaghan, Fine Gael)
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There is €10 million in the scheme with Pobal. We can get the message out today that to apply to Pobal an organisation needs to be a registered charity or to be a regulated organisation. This is one lot. If organisations do not qualify for this they should go to their local authority and that is it. Pobal will screen them. If organisations are not eligible they will be told to go to the local authority. There is an appeals system. We had to design this as quickly as we could to get the money out. I thought we would keep it simple by stating that if bodies are registered they go to Pobal and if they are not registered, they go to the local authority. I cannot make it much more simple.

Éamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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The Minister could have done so. She could have said that registered and unregistered bodies could go to Pobal and that Pobal would become the post box. All of the applications received by a certain date would be included and Pobal would send them right or left to the appropriate local authority or the Department.

Denis Naughten (Roscommon-Galway, Independent)
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I ask the Minister of State, Deputy Joe O'Brien, to speak about the other aspects.

Joe O'Brien (Dublin Fingal, Green Party)
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I agree with the Deputy that it is crucial we support communities that have experienced disadvantage and marginalisation for a long time and too long. The Deputy mentioned the Dublin north inner city model. We are in the process of developing a new policy with the Department of the Taoiseach in this regard to see how we can expand it.

That is in the pipeline at the moment but we are not waiting for that to be completed.

We launched a new programme this year entitled the empowering communities programme. It does what the Deputy did but maybe on a smaller scale. We identified 14 small areas which the data are telling us are the most disadvantaged areas in the country. They include rural areas as well, such as Ballinasloe town, one of the areas closest to the Deputy. We are resourcing the 14 areas with community workers and I would like to expand that into the future.

We have another programme running in two areas that we should be able to expand this year. The placed-based leadership programme in Darndale and Drogheda are running quite effectively. It brings community leaders together and encourages, facilitates and teaches collaboration, which does not happen enough on a cross-agency and cross-sectoral level of community development. We launched the new community development pilot programme last year and we hope to make a small expansion to that this year.

The social inclusion and community activation programme, SICAP tends to get ignored a bit. SICAP's funding allocation was €43 million in 2019 and this increased to €53 million under budget 2023. The programme's allocation is based on data and on the factual situation on the ground in terms of the areas that are most disadvantaged. It needs a bit of refreshing. With the latest census we will have the new data for SICAP at the end of next year. That will provide us with better data as we are currently working off data from 2016. On the new funding model for the community services programme I mentioned earlier, the larger allocations will go to areas of greater need. I am trying to do quite a bit at policy and programme level to make sure the communities that need more support are getting it and I will continue to do so.

Claire Kerrane (Roscommon-Galway, Sinn Fein)
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On the community centre investment fund, is there a date or a rough timeline for when the announcement will be made on successful applications under the remaining categories? Where funding was made available, it was clearly provided in addition to LIS funding and that is welcome because demand is high for this scheme. It was said earlier that the Department is in the process of contacting local authorities, as was done last year, to see what the remaining funds are in each local authority. Can we get an update in that regard?

On this subject, I tabled three parliamentary questions for the Minister, Deputy Eamon Ryan, about the Department of Transport making an allocation, as it has done previously. It does not seem to be on his radar at all given the reply I received that outlined the position, and this is the position as it remains. I do not know if it may be a wider job of work for this committee, but additional pressure needs to be applied. It does not need to be a large sum of money. Any amount that the Department could provide would make a significance difference, in particular, to the current backlog. Perhaps as a committee we could push this for because all moneys for the scheme will assist in making a difference.

Denis Naughten (Roscommon-Galway, Independent)
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Some positive PR for the Minister, Deputy Eamon Ryan, in rural Ireland would not do any harm either.

Heather Humphreys (Cavan-Monaghan, Fine Gael)
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We know the local improvement scheme was suspended and brought back in 2017 by the former Minister, Deputy Ring. We have spent €100 million on the LIS since then and I am aware of the absolute importance of the scheme. I have written to the Minister and I have raised this matter with him at every opportunity, saying that if we could just get a small contribution from his Department, it would help us along our road, excuse the pun.

On the Deputy's question about local authorities, I have been informed that approximately €30 million worth of LIS projects would be the maximum that could be carried out next year due to factors such as the availability of contractors. We expect significant demand on capital funding next year given the number of RRDF projects in construction and the delivery of the new community centres investment fund. I have a budget allocation of €12 million for next year, which I got increased a wee bit on last year by €1 million. Any surplus funds or underspending can go into that scheme. It is a very good scheme.

On the community centre investment fund, categories 2 and 3 have yet to be announced and I hope to do so in the coming weeks. It is a very popular scheme. I want to help communities because that is what we are about in this Department. We are helping communities with repairs and the new scheme next year will include new builds, which was something that was also raised with me.

Denis Naughten (Roscommon-Galway, Independent)
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I have two points I want to raise with the Minister. One is about the drawing down of the rural regeneration and development fund. It is a fund that is being ramped up and will transform rural Ireland. I know today's meeting is focused on local authorities and the delivery of funding. My local authority in Roscommon is one of the county councils that have been quite successful in securing and drawing down funding. I will give a practical example of some of the challenges on the ground. Roscommon County Council sought and secured funding from the Department of Social Protection for a project in Monksland that requires the acquiring of land owned by the council for which it has given a licence out to. This land subsequently fell under control of NAMA, however, and the council cannot get a decision to proceed with the project from NAMA. When one arm of the State has capital funding from which to draw down and another arm of the State is dragging its heels in making a decision, that is unsustainable and should not be happening. Organisations such as NAMA should be giving priority to requests relating to capital drawdowns.

The final point I want to raise with the Minister is on the LEADER funding in County Galway and I discussed it with her on our way into this morning's meeting. It received an allocation of €9 million for the next five years, which is at the lower end of the per capitapayment allocations around the country. Many people in County Galway are asking why they have been left short compared to the allocation of other counties. We have seen in County Roscommon the transformative impact LEADER has had in our county and this is in contrast with the impact it is having in Galway due to the level of funding available there. I refer, finally, to a matter this committee has considered and on which it has made recommendations to the Minister. We have recommended there should be a specific LEADER programme for the island communities, which would be administered separately rather than on a county basis. I ask the Minister to comment on those issues.

Heather Humphreys (Cavan-Monaghan, Fine Gael)
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On the Monksland project, I have actually visited that project and it will be transformative in that area in terms of remote working facilities. I cannot say why NAMA has not given a decision. I do not want to see these things being held up, and that is the truth. If the money is there, get it spent and get on with it. If our Department can help in moving that along, we are happy to do so.

Denis Naughten (Roscommon-Galway, Independent)
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I will ask the Minister about the details after this meeting.

Heather Humphreys (Cavan-Monaghan, Fine Gael)
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We are happy to do that. We will see what we can do with the relevant Minister. I think the Minister for Finance has responsibility for NAMA.

The LEADER funding issue has been raised with me. I wish to put on the record that the funding allocations for 2023 to 2027, when taken together with the allocations under the 2021 to 2022 transition programme, show that all LEADER areas have an increased allocation of core programme funding compared to the core programme funding allocated for the corresponding seven-year period of 2014 to 2020. We had the transition funding of €70 million and now, up to 2027, there is a further funding of €180 million, which brings the amount up to €250 million. We have distributed it in such a way that everybody has received an increase.

The sub-regional area of County Galway has been allocated €9 million for the 2023 to 2027 period. When taken in conjunction with the transitional funding of €3.6 million Galway has got, that gives a total LEADER programme allocation of €12.6 million for the period 2021 to 2027. For the corresponding previous programme, from 2014 to 2020, it had core programme funding of €12.2 million, so it has gone up by approximately €437,000 which is an increase of 3.55%. Funding levels are based on a minimum allocation of €3 million to each sub-regional area, with the remaining funding distributed based on population and level of deprivation in the area. This ensures funding is targeted at the areas most in need of LEADER support. To be fair, it is a very transparent system and that is the way funding has been allocated. Every LEADER company got an increase.

Regarding the offshore islands, certain stakeholder groups have expressed a preference that the new LEADER programme would include a dedicated lag for island communities-----

Denis Naughten (Roscommon-Galway, Independent)
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We need to suspend the meeting.

Denis Naughten (Roscommon-Galway, Independent)
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That concludes consideration of the Supplementary Estimate: Vote 42 - Community and Rural Development. In accordance to Standing Order 101, a message to that effect will be sent to the Clerk of the Dáil. I thank the Minister, Deputy Humphreys, and the Minister of State, Deputy Joe O'Brien, and their officials for their assistance to the committee today.