Mr. Jerry McEvilly:

I will try to take each of Deputy Bruton's points in turn. On the issue of support for continuing with fossil fuels, in particular for storage, it is very important to distinguish between immediate pressures on certain EU states as the result of loss of Russian supplies and long-term support for fossil fuels.

There is a continuous tendency in the Oireachtas to conflate gas and electricity security when they are not the same. On the broader EU perspective, one of the major reasons we are in this crisis is that decisions were taken at EU level five or seven years ago to invest further in gas, causing us to rely more on Russian gas rather than setting greater energy efficiency targets. We have continuously failed to have a grown-up discussion on demand reduction measures.

On the issue of subsidisation, I fully agree with Mr. Murtagh's points on the need to distinguish the types of subsidies but we have to be clear that this is not about a call to suddenly switch off some individual subsidy, particularly one of those subsidies for those most at risk. The issue is that Ireland has failed to even commence or produce a review of its subsidies, despite committing to do so years ago. We are at the very beginning here. This has been continuously called for.

On the issue of public support, I fully support the need to bring citizens with us and the challenge that presents but Friends of the Earth has done polling and, to give just one example, three times as many people support renewables as support the introduction of LNG. The Environmental Protection Agency has done fantastic in-depth surveys on public attitudes towards climate action on renewables. I question any sort of belief that there may not be general public support.

On the issue of rigid positions, while it is extremely challenging to suddenly take an immediate and rigid decision on fossil fuels, the example in this area is, of course, Covid-19. When the risks were explained to citizens, we found that quite harsh measures were not only readily accepted by citizens but were more actively supported than by some parts of Government.

On the day-to-day reality, I will give a very brief example relating to the fossil fuel non-proliferation treaty. Back in the 1960s, when issues around nuclear disarmament were coming to the fore, there was a general understanding that nuclear weapons were needed as a result of the Cold War and so on. Ireland took the lead in tabling resolutions at the United Nations on the need for an end to nuclear weapons and for disarmament given the risks they posed not only to Ireland, but to the world. That shifted the narrative and the understanding.