Mr. Enda McGorman:

If I may, I will kick the ball initially. As for the CDNTs, it is exactly as the Deputy said. That is a massive frustration for us. If I may give an example, we have one special school in our area, Dublin 15, that has five CDNTs working with it, so I can talk about one child with speech and language difficulties but not another child. The other child does not have a speech and language therapist in his service, and there is one principal dealing with all of five different services. We said at the start, when CDNTs were being reconfigured, that this was the wrong way to do it. We are proactively working on that. We have convinced the HSE to come on board and put in place one service for the school in question, see how it works and put all the resources into that in one case. Then, if we can show that it works successfully there, let us move it out beyond that.

As for the notion of teacher career progression, we have to grow up about this. We have to be mature about it. Deputy Ó Cathasaigh has hit the nail on the head in respect of teacher progression. Not everybody wants to be sitting in sixth, fifth, fourth or third class for 40 years. We have different routes. It is a question of having that talent and availability there and the need to match them up. There is also the idea of getting people in training - and we have said this to speech and language therapists as well as psychologists in training - out and working in schools to assist and to do some of the lifting along the way. That that would be really welcome as well.

In response to Senator O'Loughlin, I emphasise again the huge amount of work going on in schools. The Senator is absolutely right. I had in my school a tragedy when we had five deaths in one year, one by suicide. Every single time people looked to the school community for leadership. Every single time they asked, "Where is the principal in this?" and "What can we bring to the table?" Schools are more than willing to bring that expertise, compassion and, dare I say it, love with them, but when we put our hands out for the supports, that is when the support has been found lacking.

I hope that answers some of the issues Senator O'Loughlin and Deputy Ó Cathasaigh have raised.