Seán Sherlock (Cork East, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

This is an instructive discussion and I am leaning a great deal. I welcome the Bill. Labour supports it and notes the observations made on it.

I understand that IBEC was invited to attend this meeting but is not present. It would have been instructive for IBEC to attend because that would have broadened the discussion and we would have heard the employer's perspective. In my humble opinion, that IBEC is not present creates the perception that this is not a matter that it wants to engage on constructively with the Houses of the Oireachtas. Maybe it is waiting for further discussions with departmental officials and the Minister on the Government's Bill. Fair enough if that is the case, but it is rare that we have discussions of this nature where we have the trade union position and the academic position. These are good days in that respect, even though we are tackling a subject matter that is horrific.

I do not want to offend Dr. Nata by mispronouncing her surname, so I will call her "Dr. Nata", if that is okay. I wish to ask her about the key issues to consider to improve the effectiveness of the Bill. She referred to assessing "the universality of the application of the law." I have not fully internalised what she means by what she stated next:

While there is no reference to the size of the enterprise, there is concern about the extent to which this law would apply to small entrepreneurs hiring only one or two employees, or employees without contracts, such as volunteers or other informal workers. When considering domestic violence, it is important to understand that domestic employment or employment in a family enterprise [her written submission refers here to farms and households, which were the key words for me] puts more women at risk of experiencing domestic violence. These employees are outside the ambit of the Organisation of Working Time Act...

According to her, it was not clear that this group of workers come under the remit of the Bill. I have no doubt that Deputy O'Reilly will comprehensively address this point, but is there a potential wording that could be offered up by way of amendment or suggestion to the proposer of the Bill that would strengthen it, having regard to, ceteris paribus, the Deputy's answer? If this provision could be buttressed, doing so would be vital.

There is not only Deputy O'Reilly's Bill, but also the Government's Bill, and we are dealing with both. In the interventions that all of the witnesses have made today, we have a set of tools to strengthen both Bills or one or the other, depending on which is before us first. I welcome this Bill. If it could be strengthened, particularly in respect of farm holdings and domestic situations, I would welcome that.