Bríd Smith (Dublin South Central, People Before Profit Alliance)
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Because we are all stuck for time, I want to make the point that the definition of one versus the other should be clarified because thousands of people, particularly those living in apartments, are being subjected to punitive rates of energy costs and they do not have the option to go to bonkers.ieand move supplier, which is serious. If the SEAI can make any progress in developing that, it would be very useful.

The other aspect I am intrigued by is the target number of retrofitted homes. I am aware other members have asked about this. To achieve the target of 500,000 homes retrofitted by 2030, it would mean 60,000 to 70,000 homes would have to be retrofitted per year, and we are falling short of that. In addition, we are coming up against the problem of contractors and labour not being available. I will describe the situation as I see it as someone who represents a constituency of mixed types of incomes within it. The one-stop shop is great if a person has a hefty income to be able to pay upfront for deep retrofitting and can apply for all the grants.

To avail of it, however, a person has to be well-off financially and able to pay the money upfront.

The warmer homes scheme is great if one is on fuel allowance and gets one's house done for free by the State or through the SEAI. I found out recently that the waiting time for those on the list was two years but the witnesses have told us it is more than that; it is 28 months. In the budget, the Government extended fuel allowance to thousands more people, including the over-70s. They are going to be applying to the warmer homes scheme and that will push up the waiting time. Those people are over 70 already and it will be two or three years before they get a sniff at the scheme. Problems are being piled on top of problems.

Another problem I see coming down the tracks is that of individual energy upgrades. A contractor has written to us to say that it can currently apply directly to the SEAI for a grant to carry out attic insulation, wall cavity insulation, external wall insulation, internal wall insulation, ventilation or the installation of mechanical fans if the applicant signs a form consenting to the contractor making the application. From 1 January, that will change. Contractors will no longer be able to apply for the grant; the individual seeking to have the work done will have to do so. That leaves a cohort of people in the middle who account for the vast majority of homes. Median earners - those who are not very wealthy or very poor but work for an average industrial wage - will need to have €4,000 or €5,000 upfront before being entitled to anything at all. This is ridiculously punitive and unhelpful. Obviously, we are in a cost-of-living crisis and those people do not have those sums of money. Their energy costs are spiralling out of control, yet from 1 January the SEAI will make it more difficult for them to do something about that. I am dealing with people in that situation. For example, there is a lone parent with two children who lives in a corner house on Ballyfermot Parade and earns €35,000 a year. The one-stop shop is no good to her as she does not have the money to go to it. The warmer homes scheme is not available to her. She is stuck in the middle and she does not have €3,000, €4,000 or €5,000 to pay upfront to have work done to her home. She is typical of many people. What is the rationale for that decision? Is it that the SEAI does not really want people to access the scheme because it does not have enough people to work on it and does not have an apprenticeship scheme set up? An apprenticeship scheme should have been set up years ago.