Mr. Sebastian Barnes:

I know about the Dutch experience because I did some work in a different context. In general, the Dutch are very good at modelling. Their fiscal council, the Netherlands Bureau for Economic Policy Analysis has been around since 1945. It is a very powerful organisation. There is a similar organisation for climate there, and they work closely together. They have done good analysis of this but, ultimately - this is a warning of a very different sort - they had a number of court rulings regarding the fact that they were not meeting their emissions goals but also regarding air pollution. The Dutch authorities have had to take drastic action in terms of taking measures that are very costly but were needed to meet these short-term objectives. That is partly a lesson that we need to plan and start taking action quickly because if we do not, we may have to make much more violent changes. I do not know whether it happened, but there was a time when the Dutch were discussing a drastic limitation of speed on motorways as a way of getting air pollution down. That is the kind of measure one does not particularly want to have to take. It shows that if one does not plan ahead and make enough progress, one can end up having a much more costly transition.