Mr. Fergal Black:

To pick up on the Deputy's broader point, people who come into custody are poor. They are not just poor economically, however; they are poor educationally, poor in respect of their health and poor psychologically. Working with our colleagues in the education and training boards, psychology and drugs treatment services, etc., we are trying to build people up and get them to see a different pathway in life. We are dealing with people who have either been failed by the education system or in the education system. Education, as our colleagues said, is a good hook to get people involved in the system again, through arts and ceramics, for example. We have had a significant number of very good success stories where long-term prisoners have got that initial hook to go back through psychology and education, and who have then gone on to do third-level courses and master's degrees, etc. I was here with the director general of the Prison Service at the Joint Committee on Justice recently, and one of the prisoners linked into that meeting from the Loughan House open centre. He spoke articulately about his experience of prison and education and of looking at a different pathway.