Joe McHugh (Donegal, Fine Gael)
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Guím fáilte dár gcoiste roimh ár n-aíonna. Is deas bualadh agus caint le John Kearney arís mar gur chas mé air cúpla bliain ó shin i gCabhán. Tá taithí mhór aige agus guím gach rath air ina phost úr. Guím fáilte roimh Mary McGrath fosta, is deas casadh léi arís fosta, agus roimh Paula Prendeville fosta, m'iarchomharsa i dTír Chonaill, go dtí an coiste. The Chair is strict on time so I will delve straight into this. Mr. Kearney's practical experience will be instrumental and pivotal in his new role. I wish him well. His knowledge of school settings and his relationship with principals and former staff will be critical, because he will know where the pressure points are. That is already evidenced in his contribution about the principals' seminar. Principals who do not have special classes need to hear from the principals who have special classes. It adds value to the school and changes its culture. Mr. Kearney knows all this. In Brownknowe National School in Donegal, one student became the new heartbeat of that school and it changed everything. That experience is important.

I was going to ask about St. Angela's College and the progression from a graduate certificate or diploma. Mr. Kearney answered it in his contribution. There is now a path to a masters degree. I was going to raise this in the context of a discussion I had with John Gorman, principal of Rosses Community School. He was talking about the value of that continuous professional development for teachers. St. Angela's College plays a significant role. It will be part of the Atlantic Technological University. The access officer in Letterkenny, Brian McGonagle, plays a key role too. Since that question has already been answered, I have an additional one. Are we mapping the progression of a student from secondary school into third level or the world of work? There is a history and tradition of moving from primary special classes to secondary classes. These students are now entering the world of work. These are our new scientists and new leaders in the world of work or education. Are we mapping that progression as a way to inform other principals who do not necessarily understand the complete benefits of being part of this model? A good story might help.

My other question relates to special schools. I passed Little Angels Special School this morning. It was great to see the crane over the building site for the new school. I assume we have moved on from the New Brunswick idea of a few years ago. I want the NCSE to state its policy on special schools. In the last year, it announced the opening of two new special schools. During my time as Minister, we opened a new special school in Dublin. It is important that we have mainstream integration but there is still a need for special schools.

We have a positive story to tell in Donegal with regard to primary and secondary level interventions. We have been fortunate because, in the early days, some schools led from the front and created a new culture of inclusive education. A politician can get into bother by mentioning schools, but I will mention Scoil Íosagáin, Buncrana, Niall Mór National School, Killybegs and Woodland National School in Letterkenny. I have left others out but I just do not have time, so I apologise for that. Raphoe is not a big town or city, but Raphoe Royal and Prior Comprehensive School and Deele College are both striving to provide this inclusive model. That is having a positive knock-on effect, so St. Eunan's National School, Raphoe, now wants to be part of that model. It is important to acknowledge the leadership of some schools, but then one becomes a victim of one's own success. We have great SENOs in Donegal. They mix with the schools and communities. They talk and listen to the parents. They do a great job and I publicly acknowledge the role they play. There is pressure on the system.

It is a demand-led system at one end but it can be a supply-led system when it comes to building. The building unit deals with new builds and extensions with special classes at the heart of their design. That is mandatory for new schools. In fairness, the building unit tries to reach out to provide as much as investment as possible to meet the demand. Not all schools want a prefab and a segregated setting for the special class. The real leaders that I have come across put a mainstream class into the new prefab and brought the special class into the heart of the school.

I may have to give a practical example of geography, because we learn by getting into the details of geography. Parents want their children to stay in their communities. There is no question of that. It has been reflected through the public domain in the last days. Not only are children not able to stay in their own communities, they are not able to get a class at all. That is a constraint of the system. I understand that frustration and we have to look at ways to try to facilitate that. Consider Dungloe and Loughanure. A principal in a primary school in Loughanure wants to open a special class. A parent has a child in that school. There is a class in Dungloe, but Dungloe is not in the Loughanure community as far as the parents are concerned. It is not local and brothers and sisters are involved. Should we not reward a school principal who steps up to the plate? It is the same in Milford National School. The principal and parents want a class in that area but they are not being accepted on the basis that classes are available in my alma mater, Scoil Eoin Baiste, Carrickart, and Kilmacrennan National School. They are quite close but they are completely different communities. If it did not matter what community children were in, parents would be sending their children to all sorts of different schools. In the main, that does not happen. Parents want their children to come to these new schools.

Will there be a review of that demand-led policy? If there are vacant classes in a school or special class 20 miles away, does that prohibit a principal in a local school from opening a class if the demand exists? I have a fair idea of what the answer will be. It will be that there are constraints on the system and that special classes are being provided. I would like to emphasise that parents like to keep their children in their own communities if at all possible.

This may be a question for Ms McGrath. There is a pilot for 75 schools. She talked about benefits. Where are we with trying to make that model mainstream? It is an excellent model that works well. It will have occupational therapists, potentially physiotherapists, and speech and language therapists in one setting to work in a joined-up way. That has to be the way to go. Are we still banging the HSE's door down? I do not want to get into a turf war between the HSE and the Department of Education when addressing the NCSE's role, but we need leadership from the HSE on this matter, because the feedback on educational matters are positive. I thank the witnesses. They have a short time. If there are issues they cannot get across today, Mr. Kearney might correspond.