Mr. Tom Hayes:

Yes. I will just say training that was provided by Kevin Duffy to this particular industry was not good enough. Good luck with trying to argue that case in front of the Labour Court.

EWCs are entitled to be assisted by experts like Mr. Sheridan so what is the extent of the mandate of an expert? What does assisted by an expert mean? Even more importantly, what is an expert? When I was in before the CAC in the UK I made the point an expert should bring certain expertise to the process to help it. I was told by the employers' side representative on the panel they can appoint anybody they want, even if it is the local dogcatcher. I do not agree with that because if you want expertise and experts to help in a dialogue they should bring a level of expertise. Whenever I am asked by any of the managements I work with who are the best experts I always say let us talk to the unions first.