Mr. John Jordan:

One of the very important points made by the Senator suggested that Ornua's motivation was to hammer the co-op and get as low a price as possible. It is fundamentally not and, in the co-op structure, it is actually the reverse. We are incentivised to pay the best product price we can. That is why we publish the purchase price index in terms of what we pay for product. We are incentivised as a business under the co-op model to maximise our cost of goods and pay the best price we can for product. On top of that, through all of our other activities, whether it is branding or subsidiary businesses that do not use Irish product, it is to generate as much profit as we can there to pay up the Ornua value payment, which, as I said, for last year was €78 million. We are not trying to squeeze the co-op. We are trying to find a balance. As Mr. Kelly said, the futures market in commodities products is a good indicator of where anonymous buyers and sellers align.

The co-ops have an option all the time to opt in or opt out of the product we offer. They do that depending on any given year. Under our scheme, some apply for more, some apply for less and some do not take part. It is only if it makes sense for them and, in turn, if it makes sense for the farmers when each of those co-ops take those product prices and convert them into cent per litre, and that is different across each of the co-ops because their own cost base is different and their collection prices are different. Then farmers have the option to opt in or opt out. That is the model and the way it should work.

Deputies Kehoe and Fitzmaurice made points earlier about problems where individual farmers have very high levels of fixed milk in their portfolio, which has created a significant problem for them. They are the hardship cases on which we as an industry need to focus.