Dr. Ursula Barry:

Yes. I very much agree there is huge value in focusing on men, men’s opportunity to care, men’s entitlement to care and then the policies that support men’s access to care. That is very important. There a constant issue around the idea of what is the downside if we do not provide it. There was a very interesting piece of work done during the pandemic by Susan Himmelweit and a second author, who I cannot remember. They looked at the difference between investing in care and investing in construction and the returns. It was one of those economic benefit models. Investing in care in highly labour intensive and investing in construction is less labour intensive. They argued that investing in care created 3.5 times more returns in the economy than investing €1 in the construction industry. They did a comparison across many different countries. It was very interesting but it was very much an economic benefit model. That benefit was seen in terms of employment and the narrow ways in which our economies work.

As pointed out earlier, it is like we value what goes through the marketplace. For example, Professor Murphy emphasised environmental sustainability. If we generate a better environment, such as more blue flag beaches or whatever, that is not valued in economic terms because it is not a market-based addition to our environment. Many things around the environment are not market-based and market-valued. Therefore, they are, again, marginal to our policy system in the way care is. We have to look at a wider way of measuring economic and social well-being.

Somebody pointed out that there is an amount of work being done on that by the UN with the human development index. In Europe, there is a gender equality index, for example. However, at the same time, the main drivers are still GNP and GDP and they are core to how we value any additional activity, whether it is on care or in relation to the environment. Until that shifts, at least to a significant degree, it is very hard to see the wider socio-cultural context in which care and the environment are evaluated. It is hard to see them shifting.